Phil Cook <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> I meant using 'their' electricity to sound the ringer in the knowledge  
> that you won't be charged for the call.

  The electricity used by a phone doesn't come from the electricity
company. It comes from the phone company (through the phone line).
It's a completely separate system. The owner of the phone line doesn't
pay for that electricity (well, at least not directly).

  At most you could stretch and say that the caller was wasting the
electricity of the phone company.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 1 May 2008 09:46:33 -0400, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:

>Phil Cook <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>> I meant using 'their' electricity to sound the ringer in the knowledge  
>> that you won't be charged for the call.

Yes I see and you are right.

>  The electricity used by a phone doesn't come from the electricity
>company. It comes from the phone company (through the phone line).
>It's a completely separate system. The owner of the phone line doesn't
>pay for that electricity (well, at least not directly).
>

This is true as most people know but where does the phone company get
its 50 volt dc come from. I suspect it is from an electricity company.
:)
>  At most you could stretch and say that the caller was wasting the
>electricity of the phone company.

Yes and at that time the phone company (GPO) was a state run company. 
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom> wrote:
> >  At most you could stretch and say that the caller was wasting the
> >electricity of the phone company.

> Yes and at that time the phone company (GPO) was a state run company. 

  But if law is the same for everyone, as it should be, then the state
should sue everyone who "wastes" the electricity of the phone company
in a similar manner.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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And lo on Thu, 01 May 2008 15:46:44 +0100, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> did  
spake, saying:

> Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom> wrote:
>> >  At most you could stretch and say that the caller was wasting the
>> >electricity of the phone company.
>
>> Yes and at that time the phone company (GPO) was a state run company.
>
>   But if law is the same for everyone, as it should be, then the state
> should sue everyone who "wastes" the electricity of the phone company
> in a similar manner.

Indeed they should. If the phone company (public or private) is buying in  
electricity (public or private) then the cost of that purchase is probably  
covered by both the set service charge and call charge. If someone were to  
call with the knowledge that the other end wouldn't be picked up and thus  
incur a call charge then in theory they could be classed as defrauding the  
phone company; as with my cheque example.

If we treat this example as a true case then it follows that the phone  
company registered an inordinate amount of short non-charging calls from  
one number to another and investigated. Discovering the truth they were  
miffed that someone was using their system to send a message without  
paying them for the privilege and thus charged them under misuse of  
telecommunications equipment.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Stephen wrote:
> This is true as most people know but where does the phone company get
> its 50 volt dc come from. I suspect it is from an electricity company.

Batteries charged off of the grid, or off of generators started when the 
batteries get low if the electricity is off.

Ever see a room with hundreds of cubic feet of glass cases full of acid 
and lead? It's pretty cool.

You could run a normal-sized central office off batteries for several 
days, or several weeks if you start up the generators occasionally, 
without any outside services. If everyone with knowledge disappeared, 
the phone system would probably run three to four months before it broke 
down enough to have a major network partition.

(All this was from my days in the local telcos 15 years ago in the US, 
so it has probably changed since all the deregulation really had its 
effects.)

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."

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On Thu, 01 May 2008 08:35:12 -0700, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>> This is true as most people know but where does the phone company get
>> its 50 volt dc come from. I suspect it is from an electricity company.
>
>Batteries charged off of the grid, or off of generators started when the 
>batteries get low if the electricity is off.

IIRC in the UK, the power to charge the batteries comes from the grid
with a standby generator in case that fails. 

>Ever see a room with hundreds of cubic feet of glass cases full of acid 
>and lead? It's pretty cool.
>

Yes, but I thought that it was pretty boring. Racks and racks of black
batteries in an awkward space. I one spent three days in a cathodic
protection room faultfinding a data logger. Who would have thought of
looking for a fuse between the outer and inner skins of the processing
unit? :(

>You could run a normal-sized central office off batteries for several 
>days, or several weeks if you start up the generators occasionally, 
>without any outside services. If everyone with knowledge disappeared, 
>the phone system would probably run three to four months before it broke 
>down enough to have a major network partition.

Interesting 

>(All this was from my days in the local telcos 15 years ago in the US, 
>so it has probably changed since all the deregulation really had its 
>effects.)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen wrote:
> IIRC in the UK, the power to charge the batteries comes from the grid
> with a standby generator in case that fails. 

I think that's what I said is the case in the US, too, in case I wasn't 
clear.

>> Ever see a room with hundreds of cubic feet of glass cases full of acid 
>> and lead? It's pretty cool.
>>
> 
> Yes, but I thought that it was pretty boring. Racks and racks of black
> batteries in an awkward space. 

Nope. These were big bathtub-sized open-top glass tubs with lead slabs 
hanging down into them. :-) Scary - I stayed on the catwalk myself.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."

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On Fri, 02 May 2008 09:34:45 -0700, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>> IIRC in the UK, the power to charge the batteries comes from the grid
>> with a standby generator in case that fails. 
>
>I think that's what I said is the case in the US, too, in case I wasn't 
>clear.
>

Sorry I misread it.

>>> Ever see a room with hundreds of cubic feet of glass cases full of acid 
>>> and lead? It's pretty cool.
>>>
>> 
>> Yes, but I thought that it was pretty boring. Racks and racks of black
>> batteries in an awkward space. 
>
>Nope. These were big bathtub-sized open-top glass tubs with lead slabs 
>hanging down into them. :-) Scary - I stayed on the catwalk myself.

I think that I would rather be bored :) That does sound scary.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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>  The electricity used by a phone doesn't come from the electricity
> company. It comes from the phone company (through the phone line).

If you have a old style phone - sure, but new cordless phones that I see 
most people having today don't work this way.  They simply measure the 
voltage on the phone line and use their own power (from the normal house 
supply) to generate ringtones, the power for the speaker etc.  They are not 
like old phones where the phone itself draws a significant amount of power 
from the phone line to ring a bell or sound a buzzer.

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> This is true as most people know but where does the phone company get
> its 50 volt dc come from. I suspect it is from an electricity company.

There were some major power outages here a few years back,
after about 24 hours the telephone exchange went down. This
was repeated on two other occasions, which leads me to think
there is nothing but a battery back-up locally.

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