Darren New wrote:
> Stephen wrote:
>> OK I know that not all Americans feel that way but it seems that the
>> majority of
>> vocal ones do.
> 
> I think it's the corporations who profit from a lack of nationalized
> health care that are most vocal. They become vocal by hiring or
> otherwise getting shills to show up and make a lot of noise.  The actual
> polls show a huge majority of the people asked are in favor. (Where
> something like 85% is a "huge majority" in this country.)
> 

I doubt they had to hire many of the loud voices. Think of it this way,
if they hired people, wouldn't they at least feed them valid points
instead of just turning them loose to yell what ever they wanted? Maybe
I give conspiracies too much credit.

I have heard, through news reports and video of these "town hall
meetings", people yelling the most absurd complaints about national
health care. The two that stuck with me were the person who didn't "Want
(their) money going to pay for someone else being sick", and the
complains about "overpaid government workers getting to decide who gets
what treatment." Obviously, the first person has no clue how insurance
groups work and the second would rather have highly paid accountants
decide what treatment is available. Or more likely, they are repeating
what was televised before and thinking that parroting a talking point
constitutes a debate. I would weep for public education, but that is a
whole different rant. To boot, the side supporting this reform are
guilty of the same thing, just repeating themselves ad-infinitum instead
of listening to valid complaints about how this would be funded and who
would ultimately be responsible for picking what gets covered.

Then you have the possibility that abortions might be covered by
national health insurance, when no one wants to have a rational debate
about when and if abortions are a safe/best/acceptable option and
instead just want to yell at the other side for being wrong. Back up all
of these complains with the undercurrents of classism and racism that
are still rampant in the USA, and you have the perfect opportunity for
both sides to just hold up signs on opposing street corners and yell at
each other.

And that 85% majority, they need to stop being so silent. Standing up
and yelling won't fix anything, but there may still be time to teach
this country how to have a real discussion without name-calling and
graffiti.

off-off-topic, I come back to usenet and my first post gets to be a huge
rant. Now I remember what I've been missing!

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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:05:00 -0400, Sabrina Kilian <ski### [at] vtedu> wrote:

>off-off-topic, I come back to usenet and my first post gets to be a huge
>rant. Now I remember what I've been missing!

Welcome back Sabrina, you were missed.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 08/17/09 06:05, Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> I doubt they had to hire many of the loud voices. Think of it this way,
> if they hired people, wouldn't they at least feed them valid points
> instead of just turning them loose to yell what ever they wanted? Maybe
> I give conspiracies too much credit.

	Why give them valid points when invalid points seem to do the job 
almost as well?


-- 
When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane

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Neeum Zawan wrote:
>     Why give them valid points when invalid points seem to do the job 
> almost as well?

Invalid points do *better*, because there's no rationality behind it. Is it 
easier to convince someone their rational beliefs are wrong, or their 
religious beliefs?  The point isn't to find problems with the plan. The 
point is to prevent the plan from progressing, which is best done by 
throwing irrational unanswerable ranting at the planners.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:05:00 -0400, Sabrina Kilian wrote:

> Think of it this way, if
> they hired people, wouldn't they at least feed them valid points instead
> of just turning them loose to yell what ever they wanted?

Depends on whether they feel they have good points or they just want to 
disrupt the meetings.

Jim

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On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:57:15 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> There are two problems with private health insurance (or, indeed,
> voluntary health insurance).
> 
> 1 - If it's voluntary, only the sick people sign up for it. The
> [...]
> 
> 2 - Your health is worth virtually anything you own. How much of your
> [...]

Both very good points, Darren.

Jim

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> >   In light of this, it starts sounding less ridiculous Steve Ballmer calling
> > Linux "communism".

> Viewed economically, isn't that what Linux is, in essence? Why would it be 
> ridiculous at all?

> (I mean, sure, Ballmer clearly was using the term pejoratively, but why is 
> it factually incorrect?)

  Linux doesn't forbid commercial use?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Neeum Zawan wrote:
>     I think there are *much* more of these kinds of things going on. 
> It's just that some of them seem big enough to fall under our radar 
> (health issue, Prince, etc). I know this sounds cynical, but this is 
> mostly just business as usual.
>  

Ok. I see your point. Mind things do change some. The racists can't be 
"openly" racist any more, and even they wouldn't, for the most part, go 
as far as the Klan used to, not on our own soil anyway, and not without 
"inventing" some other reason to do it. Progress is slow, but happening, 
and as I said, part of the problem is that the last bastion of some of 
this BS is finding themselves, by their own paranoid actions, holed up 
in one tiny keep, on the side of a mountain, and everyone from the city 
power company to the local plumber's union is now showing up to tell 
them, "Dude, your not under code, and we need to breach the wall a bit 
here to add some wires, or a pipe.". In other words, they are fighting 
an inevitable end of their particular *level* of madness. So, confronted 
with a choice between admitting that a lot of their BS is just fear, and 
all the dire things they think will happen are not going to, they would 
rather make one last, loud, obnoxious, over the top, charge, in hopes 
that they can breach their imagined enemies defenses. They are Don 

most of the next generation, even among some of their general allies, 
are realizing that its madness. But, they *can't* see it. Doing so would 
be admitting they already lost, and that the only way they can win at 
this point is if either their god is real, and ends the world, or they 
destroy everything this country actually stands for, and try to replace 
it (while failing to realize this would make them exactly like every 
fascist power they imagine having fought off, single handedly, in the 
past, with the will to preserve something that only ever existed in 
their own minds in the first place).

It makes them dangerous. Just as dangerous imho, though not necessarily 
as violent, as radical Islam. In fact, they might be more dangerous. All 
radical militants can do is kill you. People willing to do *any* other 
than that, can corrupt and poison everything. Its better to be dealing 
with someone sending a few assassins with a knives, than several similar 
loons, with a bag of arsenic and access to local the public well. Its a 
gift that keeps on giving...

-- 
void main () {

     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models, 
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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Oh, and this might explain somethings:

http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/090817-money-cocaine.html

DC has the highest "traces" of cocaine of any part of the country, on 
their money, with 95% of it contaminated. Take from that what you will. lol

-- 
void main () {

     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models, 
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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Warp wrote:
>   Linux doesn't forbid commercial use?

Hmmm.  I guess it breaks down in that sense, yes.  Thanks.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

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