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On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:00:54 -0500, Grassblade wrote:
> He said WHAT????!!! I would check my facts, if I were you. Seriously.
Exodus 22:18.
Jim
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On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 16:52:33 -0500, nemesis wrote:
> I'll pray for your souls, though... :-)
Thanks, but no thanks - you're free to believe what you believe, leave me
free to believe what I believe. It's not your job to "save" me.
If there is a God, then he understands what I'm about, and he will
forgive me for living as he intended - with free will.
Jim
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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospam com> wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:00:54 -0500, Grassblade wrote:
>
> > He said WHAT????!!! I would check my facts, if I were you. Seriously.
>
> Exodus 22:18.
he was talking about Jesus.
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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> Thanks, but no thanks - you're free to believe what you believe, leave me
> free to believe what I believe. It's not your job to "save" me.
I can't "save" you. Just ask for it.
> If there is a God, then he understands what I'm about, and he will
> forgive me for living as he intended - with free will.
free will?! Do you live in a palace? Do you have several women? Do you have a
PS3, a home theather with 42' HDTV and Dolby Digital? Do you kill your boss
when you're fed up? neither do I...
you sound like me a few years ago. I was raised catholic, then gone the Alan
Kardec way, then atheist. Now, here I am again. Life is too short for
nitpicking...
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On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:56:44 -0500, nemesis wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:00:54 -0500, Grassblade wrote:
>>
>> > He said WHAT????!!! I would check my facts, if I were you. Seriously.
>>
>> Exodus 22:18.
>
> he was talking about Jesus.
Jesus was there to "clarify" the OT laws, was he not? I sure remember
someone in this discussion making that point, and I would've bet money it
was you. ;-)
Jim
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On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 18:22:20 -0500, nemesis wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> Thanks, but no thanks - you're free to believe what you believe, leave
>> me free to believe what I believe. It's not your job to "save" me.
>
> I can't "save" you. Just ask for it.
Well, like I said, it's not necessary. I appreciate your concern, but
I'm also certain that if I have a soul, it's well and truly taken care of
already. :-)
>> If there is a God, then he understands what I'm about, and he will
>> forgive me for living as he intended - with free will.
>
> free will?! Do you live in a palace? Do you have several women? Do
> you have a PS3, a home theather with 42' HDTV and Dolby Digital? Do you
> kill your boss when you're fed up? neither do I...
I have the things that I need in order to be happy, and I control my own
destiny. That's not about where you live or the stuff you have. I am
free to make my own decisions, and I am also free to live with the
consequences of those decisions.
Jim
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nemesis wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> Thanks, but no thanks - you're free to believe what you believe, leave me
>> free to believe what I believe. It's not your job to "save" me.
>
> I can't "save" you. Just ask for it.
>
>> If there is a God, then he understands what I'm about, and he will
>> forgive me for living as he intended - with free will.
>
> free will?! Do you live in a palace? Do you have several women? Do you have a
> PS3, a home theather with 42' HDTV and Dolby Digital? Do you kill your boss
> when you're fed up? neither do I...
nor me, and I don't even believe in free will
Apart from that, I have two problems with the several women.
First you don't know for sure that Jim is completely heterosexual,
second these women (and his boss) might have free will too (assuming
such a thing exists ;) ). This might be perceived as slightly sexist.
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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 18:22:20 -0500, nemesis wrote:
> > free will?! Do you live in a palace? Do you have several women? Do
> > you have a PS3, a home theather with 42' HDTV and Dolby Digital? Do you
> > kill your boss when you're fed up? neither do I...
>
> I have the things that I need in order to be happy, and I control my own
> destiny. That's not about where you live or the stuff you have. I am
> free to make my own decisions, and I am also free to live with the
> consequences of those decisions.
me too! My point is that you don't need to go to extremes in order to shout:
"I am free!"
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On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:56:24 +0100, andrel wrote:
> First you
> don't know for sure that Jim is completely heterosexual,
Well, *I*'m sure about that. :-)
> second these
> women (and his boss) might have free will too (assuming such a thing
> exists ). This might be perceived as slightly sexist.
Actually, my boss, my boss' boss, and my boss' boss' boss, are all female.
Jim
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On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:36:44 -0500, nemesis wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 18:22:20 -0500, nemesis wrote:
>> > free will?! Do you live in a palace? Do you have several women? Do
>> > you have a PS3, a home theather with 42' HDTV and Dolby Digital? Do
>> > you kill your boss when you're fed up? neither do I...
>>
>> I have the things that I need in order to be happy, and I control my
>> own destiny. That's not about where you live or the stuff you have. I
>> am free to make my own decisions, and I am also free to live with the
>> consequences of those decisions.
>
> me too! My point is that you don't need to go to extremes in order to
> shout: "I am free!"
Um, I'm not, I'm simply saying that if you want to spend time praying for
someone's soul, pray for the souls of those who appreciate the effort and
for whom it has meaning.
Assuming the soul does exist, I consider it to be quite presumptuous to
assume that because I don't believe the same as you do, my soul needs to
be saved, and that you're the right person to be asking whatever deity
you believe in for my eternal salvation. For one thing, that assumes
that your deity is the one that I would believe in "if I knew better";
that in turn presumes to be telling me what I should believe in, and, no
offense, but you've no idea what's right for me in that department.
Tell you what, you can pray for my soul if you will permit me to do a
tarot reading to tell us if you're right to do so. I have honestly found
tarot to be something useful as a tool for me; however, I would never do
a reading for someone without their permission (and under most normal
circumstances, I wouldn't even do so WITH their permission, because I
personally don't think that's a proper use of the tool).
In other words, I'll trade you a ritual you're comfortable with and I'm
not for one I'm comfortable with that you're not. If you are comfortable
with tarot, then let's find one you're not comfortable with and I'll use
that instead.
Then you'll have an idea of what it's like to be on the receiving end of
"spiritual" guidance that is unwelcome and unwanted. Fair enough?
Jim
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