>> You can certainly by used items for a long time after it stops being
>> made. But you cannot, for example, buy a "new" Pentium II. They don't
>> make them any more.
>
> Look at:
> http://tinyurl.com/6l4w67o

"Refurbished" isn't the same as "new". I didn't say you can't buy it, I 
said you can't buy it new.

>> You saw software for sale on ebay, and you think it's *legal*??
>
> Most likely yes. Why do you think it wouldn't be?

Because it's ebay? It's basically an electronic car boot sale.

> I know it is a big bad world but not everyone is dishonest. In my
> experience most people are honest.

In my experience, a tiny number of people make up for the vast majority 
of network traffic.

Take a look at YouTube. While there *is* good stuff on there, you'd be 
hard-pressed to find any of it. The vast majority of the content is of 
dubious legality, dubious quality, or both.

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>> Look at:
>> http://tinyurl.com/6l4w67o
>
> "Refurbished" isn't the same as "new". I didn't say you can't buy it, I
> said you can't buy it new.

You missed the "new" one.  We could go on all day posting examples of 
new stuff to buy that hasn't been manufactured for years.  I imagine HP 
keeps quite a huge stock of parts that are no longer made, specifically 
for people who want to repair servers.

>>> You saw software for sale on ebay, and you think it's *legal*??
>>
>> Most likely yes. Why do you think it wouldn't be?
>
> Because it's ebay? It's basically an electronic car boot sale.

What's wrong with Amazon then?  WHy don't you just order a copy and quit 
trying to tell everyone it's impossible?

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On 25/02/2011 2:37 PM, Invisible wrote:
>>
>> Look at:
>> http://tinyurl.com/6l4w67o
>
> "Refurbished" isn't the same as "new". I didn't say you can't buy it, I
> said you can't buy it new.
>

As Scott said.

>>> You saw software for sale on ebay, and you think it's *legal*??
>>
>> Most likely yes. Why do you think it wouldn't be?
>
> Because it's ebay? It's basically an electronic car boot sale.
>

If the seller is a retailer then they are subject to the Distance 
Selling Regulations. It is not really a car boot sale. You have rights.

>> I know it is a big bad world but not everyone is dishonest. In my
>> experience most people are honest.
>
> In my experience, a tiny number of people make up for the vast majority
> of network traffic.
>

Which has very little to do with being able to buy XP OS. Just don't get 
caught out and buy from a reputable seller.

> Take a look at YouTube. While there *is* good stuff on there, you'd be
> hard-pressed to find any of it. The vast majority of the content is of
> dubious legality, dubious quality, or both.

I have neither the time nor the inclination.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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Invisible wrote:
> It's against the terms of the EULA to resell an XP license if you've 
> used it. 

Interestingly enough, I think one could argue in a hoist-on-you-own-pitar
d 
kind of way that this is unenforcable, at least in the USA.

When you buy a piece of software, it's just like buying a book. You can 
resell it, rent it out, or otherwise do whatever you want with it, as lon
g 
as you don't violate copyright law.

Installing it on your computer makes a copy, and *that* copy has the EULA
 to 
which you must agree to run it. Indeed, forcing you to agree to the EULA 

before you run it is exactly how the company gets around the permissivene
ss 
of copyright law.  (Altho before the DMCA that didn't actually work.)

So, technically, the EULA applies to the copy you installed on your hard 

disk and transitively to the copy you made into memory (since the courts 

here have said that the copy in memory actually *is* a separate copy, and
 
not just an essential step of using the software).

All this together would seem to imply that the EULA does not apply to the
 
CD, but only to installed copies. Hence, limitations on what you can do w
ith 
the CD after you've wiped out the installation to which the EULA applies 

wouldn't seem to be enforcable.


> (And let's face it, how many people will have paid hundreds of 
> pounds for something and not used it?)

You'd be surprised. Buy a license pack of 25, use 15, go out of business,
 
auction off the other 10 on e-bay.

> Even more interesting... Checking the nearest website shows that you ca
n 
> now buy Windows 7 for less than £400.

Buy the upgrade version. Install XP. Upgrade it to Win7. Downgrade it bac
k 
to XP. ;-)

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
  "How did he die?"   "He got shot in the hand."
     "That was fatal?"
          "He was holding a live grenade at the time."

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Invisible wrote:
>>> You can certainly by used items for a long time after it stops being
>>> made. But you cannot, for example, buy a "new" Pentium II. They don't
>>> make them any more.
>>
>> Look at:
>> http://tinyurl.com/6l4w67o
> 
> "Refurbished" isn't the same as "new". I didn't say you can't buy it, I 
> said you can't buy it new.

How do you "refurbish" a CPU, may I ask? That seems bizarre to me. Almost as 
bizarre as refurbished software.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
  "How did he die?"   "He got shot in the hand."
     "That was fatal?"
          "He was holding a live grenade at the time."

Post a reply to this message

On 25/02/2011 04:53 PM, Darren New wrote:

> How do you "refurbish" a CPU, may I ask?

Blow the dust off it, I presume...

> That seems bizarre to me.
> Almost as bizarre as refurbished software.

Roger that.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On 25/02/2011 04:49 PM, Darren New wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> It's against the terms of the EULA to resell an XP license if you've
>> used it.
>
> Interestingly enough, I think one could argue in a
> hoist-on-you-own-pitard kind of way that this is unenforcable, at least
> in the USA.

That's why I wrote "against the terms of the EULA" rather than 
"illegal". ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> If the manufacturer stops making something, you can't buy it any more.
>
> Incorrect. Take a car that hasn't been in production for the last 10
> years to a garage and ask for a new part (specific to that car) -
> they'll likely have a new one in stock somewhere. Lots of companies
> specifically buy up lots of parts before production stops, exactly to be
> able to supply them to people at a later date.

Car manufacturers have to continue to make parts available for a certain 
number of years (in most countries, at least) after they redesigned the 
part, or stopped making said vehicle.

For example, GM will have to continue to make Hummer parts available for 
10 years.

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/*   gmail.com     */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

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On 2/24/2011 4:21 PM, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Sabrina Kilian wrote:
>> On 2/12/2011 1:15 PM, Shay wrote:
>>> Want to run BB Desktop Manager once a month or so, but don't have a
>>> Windows install. Haven't had one in a while, actually, and don't know
>>> much about it anymore. Is there a cheap one I can buy somewhere or
>>> should I just pick up an old laptop?
>>>
>>> -Shay
>>
>> I assume you mean something for a BlackBerry device? Would a virtual
>> machine, like VirtualBox, run windows well enough to power it? Or did
>> you just mean a cheap computer; there are plenty of those around that
>> cost less than new smart phones.
>
> VirtualBox doesn't include Windows, and Windows is not usually cheap.
>

I don't know about everywhere else, but being a high tech college town 
with lots of turn over in hardware, I have seen Dell and other brand 
computers turn up at the thrift stores with the hologram stickers 
intact. Whether that is a legal transfer of ownership of the license, I 
hadn't actually considered. Those stickers are, in my experience, the 
only 'authenticity' that ship with the devices anymore.

And it seemed to my reading that the question included both the hardware 
to run windows and the OS to run the BB desktop manager. If it is 
against the Windows license to transfer them, my answer can still be 
read as just providing for the hardware side.

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> Car manufacturers have to continue to make parts available for a certain
> number of years (in most countries, at least) after they redesigned the
> part, or stopped making said vehicle.
>
> For example, GM will have to continue to make Hummer parts available for
> 10 years.

Yes that was exactly my point - maybe I just worded it badly as it isn't 
actually the car manufacturer making or stocking the parts, it's their 
suppliers.

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