 |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Invisible wrote:
> ...well, I end up drafting and re-drafting in an endless cycle which
> never produces a document of more than a few dozen pages. :-(
You're jumping in and writing code before you've written a spec.
The way you solve this problem is you write an outline. Next time you're
trying to do this, write an outline and show it to us first, before writing
*any* text. Three days later, write the text by following the outline.
Trust me on this.
> Writing a page or two isn't too hard. (Parsec, anyone?) Writing
> something that's 30 pages long is another matter.
It's the same process. You build an outline that breaks it down to one to
three paragraphs for each entry. Essentially, it's a really, really detailed
table of contents.
*Then* write the document.
>> Show it to someone else each time, and ask where it was confusing.
> I don't know anybody who is this patient.
I'm happy to do it for a while, *if* you are actually interested in learning
and will try it the way I ask you to. If you're going to post wall-of-text
and when I say "where's the outline" you tell me you didn't do one, then I'm
not going to be patient, because you're not going to solve the problem
you're describing if you do that.
>>> I haven't had the pleasure of working with a professional editor yet.
>> That's what a good high school is for. ;-)
> Now I'm going to have to look up what the UK-equivalent term is...
The last few grades before college, the final mandatory schooling levels...
>>> Yeah. Logically, there must be books and courses and things somewhere
>>> which explain how to do this properly.
>>
>> I would think you learn by sitting with other professional sound
>> engineers. I wouldn't think "sound engineer" is something you could read
>> about.
>
> You're probably right about that.
>
> Even if this isn't the case, it's unlikely that the necessary material
> can be accessed for free. It's more likely you'd have to pay money for
> that.
Altho I imagine with the internets' ability to deliver sound in a way
textbooks can't, you *might* be able to learn this online.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"How did he die?" "He got shot in the hand."
"That was fatal?"
"He was holding a live grenade at the time."
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Patrick Elliott wrote:
> On 1/27/2011 9:47 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:19:30 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:
>>
>>> Any "copies" are charged at a lower cost, either to the
>>> copier, or the one receiving.
>>
>> How would one even collect on that, though?
>>
>> Jim
> With the *newer* technologies.
In particular, digital technologies that allow for easy copying. We already
have the "sell your copy for less than new" technology for printed books. We
call it "used bookstore" technology. ;-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"How did he die?" "He got shot in the hand."
"That was fatal?"
"He was holding a live grenade at the time."
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 09:08:28 +0000, Invisible wrote:
>>> I consider myself to be moderately good at explaining complex ideas.
>>> What I utterly suck at is writing anything of any significant size.
>>
>> That just comes with practice. Practice that includes feedback that
>> you learn from, that is.
>
> Yes, well, given that 98% of everything I write will never be seen by
> another pair of eyes, that's not likely to change.
It certainly won't be if you don't share it. Another tip from this book
I'm reading is to weekly take some time to create a presentation on a
topic - any topic - and share it with someone to get some feedback.
You can't get the benefit from practicing something if you don't actually
practice it.
>> That also comes with practice and feedback. What really helps is to
>> understand your audience - which requires asking prospective members of
>> your audience what their experience is in the field you're presenting
>> on.
>
> Usually the answer is "for ****'s sake, we don't /care/ about Haskell!"
Then you've not done a proper audience analysis. You have to pick topics
that your audience cares about. It's a much more advanced presentation
skill to make people care about something they don't currently care about.
>> GIYF:
>>
>> http://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-Sound-Engineer
>
> I'm loving the "warning - sound engineers earn peanuts" bit. Nice to
> know!
Some people do a job for reasons other than money. :-)
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 09:29:25 +0000, Invisible wrote:
>> When you know a whole bunch about a subject, that can happen. It just
>> takes practice. And writing an outline first.
>
> Trouble is, for a large, complex topic, you usually find that you have
> to explain X before Y will make any sense. Except that instead of being
> a simple hierarchical tree of information, what you have is a tangled
> dependency web, and finding a suitable path through it is an NP-complete
> problem. Trying to find such a path that doesn't also involve jumping
> from topic to topic in a potentially baffling way only makes it harder.
> Add to that the psychology of keeping your readers interested and having
> a sense that they're getting somewhere, and...
>
> ...well, I end up drafting and re-drafting in an endless cycle which
> never produces a document of more than a few dozen pages. :-(
Surprise, this is the process of writing.
It's been my experience, though, that with practice one can learn how to
properly organise things so they can be presented effectively. I have
created training materials on highly complex technical topics, and my
classes always got good feedback and people would walk away understanding
what they were taught.
Hyperbole really doesn't help you make your case, though. It's not NP-
complete, it's a matter of breaking the topics down into digestible
units, and then organising the units in the most effective manner
possible.
Give me an example topic and I'll walk you through it.
>> If you want to get good at this, write a page-long lesson on anything
>> you like, twice a week, starting with an outline. In a few weeks, you
>> should be able to finish the whole essay in 20 minutes.
>
> Writing a page or two isn't too hard. (Parsec, anyone?) Writing
> something that's 30 pages long is another matter.
No, it's writing 30 pages one page at a time. You start with an outline
to structure your topics and thoughts, and then you write.
In recent times, I've found that a mindmap is a very useful tool for
organising thoughts.
>> Show it to someone else each time, and ask where it was confusing.
>
> I don't know anybody who is this patient.
We're right here.
>>> Yeah. Logically, there must be books and courses and things somewhere
>>> which explain how to do this properly.
>>
>> I would think you learn by sitting with other professional sound
>> engineers. I wouldn't think "sound engineer" is something you could
>> read about.
>
> You're probably right about that.
>
> Even if this isn't the case, it's unlikely that the necessary material
> can be accessed for free. It's more likely you'd have to pay money for
> that.
<sigh>
Did you know that MIT makes most of their course materials available
online FOR FREE?
http://ocw.mit.edu
There's a lot more free information out there if you just search for it.
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:01:50 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> With the *newer* technologies. I am talking like how E-books are like,
> pretty much, always connected to the network, and the like. For most
> current systems, it won't work.
I see, makes sense.
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:15:01 +0000, scott wrote:
>>> Does that explain it?
>>
>> It doesn't explain why I am not allowed to watch iPlayer.
>
> (I assume it's because you don't live in UK)
>
> The rights the BBC has for programming is totally separate to how the
> license fee system is set up. For almost all the TV programs the BBC
> don't have (and don't want) the rights to show it outside the UK. They'd
> rather sell these off to foreign broadcasters (if they own the content)
> or simply only pay for the UK rights. The only way it is possible for
> iPlayer to exist is if it's only accessible to UK residents.
Well, that's not strictly true, as there are some portions of content
available in iPlayer that can be viewed/listened to worldwide.
I know, because I do. :-)
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 28-1-2011 14:15, scott wrote:
>>> Does that explain it?
>>
>> It doesn't explain why I am not allowed to watch iPlayer.
>
> (I assume it's because you don't live in UK)
>
> The rights the BBC has for programming is totally separate to how the
> license fee system is set up. For almost all the TV programs the BBC
> don't have (and don't want) the rights to show it outside the UK. They'd
> rather sell these off to foreign broadcasters (if they own the content)
> or simply only pay for the UK rights. The only way it is possible for
> iPlayer to exist is if it's only accessible to UK residents.
Someone once suggested that the restrictions are because we foreigners
don't pay the licence fee. That they don't want us to watch because they
want to sell the programs abroad makes sense.
From an economic point of view at least. I find it always a bit
discomforting if I am not allowed to see something because of where I
live. Probably because the most common use is to prevent people *within*
a country to see something. Though used for a different reason this is
the same sort of technology.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>> Yes, well, given that 98% of everything I write will never be seen by
>> another pair of eyes, that's not likely to change.
>
> It certainly won't be if you don't share it. Another tip from this book
> I'm reading is to weekly take some time to create a presentation on a
> topic - any topic - and share it with someone to get some feedback.
I can't think of anybody who would be interested in reading something I
wrote, much less sitting through a presentation. (Besides, I'm much
better at writing than talking.)
> You can't get the benefit from practicing something if you don't actually
> practice it.
No kidding. ;-)
>> Usually the answer is "for ****'s sake, we don't /care/ about Haskell!"
>
> Then you've not done a proper audience analysis.
Fair enough.
>> I'm loving the "warning - sound engineers earn peanuts" bit. Nice to
>> know!
>
> Some people do a job for reasons other than money. :-)
Yes, well, I have no intention of becoming a professional sound
engineer. I just want to know the techniques so I can use them for my
hobby projects. ;-)
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>> Yes, well, given that 98% of everything I write will never be seen by
>> another pair of eyes, that's not likely to change.
>
> And what we're telling you is that has to change.
And I'm telling you it's unlikely to change.
>> Usually the answer is "for ****'s sake, we don't /care/ about Haskell!"
>
> You need to read something other than Haskell blogs.
Actually I barely know of any Haskell blogs.
> Read a book, and write a book report, and ask someone to critique it for
> you. Everything you've written and posted here, even the wall-of-text
> posts, has been interesting, even tho I looked at Haskell and said "huh,
> interesting" and ignored it from then on.
Personally I think Haskell technologies can be interesting even if you
don't actually use Haskell. Like, lazy I/O. You could *totally* do that
in an OOP language. If you thought it was a good idea. The benefits and
pitfalls would be totally the same. Just as an example.
> Have you read no fiction in your life that when you got to the end you
> said "wow, that was pretty cool. I thought about something I wouldn't
> have thought of." Have you read no science article where you said "I bet
> in 50 years this will..."?
Molecular biology?
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>> ...well, I end up drafting and re-drafting in an endless cycle which
>> never produces a document of more than a few dozen pages. :-(
>
> You're jumping in and writing code before you've written a spec.
>
> The way you solve this problem is you write an outline. Next time you're
> trying to do this, write an outline and show it to us first, before
> writing *any* text. Three days later, write the text by following the
> outline.
>
> Trust me on this.
Trouble is, I write the outline, start writing the body text, and then
discover that this is actually a bad order, due to some dependency I
hadn't thought of.
It's like writing a computer program by deciding what you're going to
name the modules, and then discovering that your programs abstractions
don't actually factor that way very naturally.
(I actually think of writing as being very similar to programming...)
>> Writing a page or two isn't too hard. (Parsec, anyone?) Writing
>> something that's 30 pages long is another matter.
>
> It's the same process.
Not really. I mean, if you write something that doesn't completely make
sense until two paragraphs later, most people will accept that. If you
write something in chapter 2 that doesn't really make sense until
chapter 17... not good.
>> I don't know anybody who is this patient.
>
> I'm happy to do it for a while, *if* you are actually interested in
> learning and will try it the way I ask you to.
OK, well we'll see...
>>> I would think you learn by sitting with other professional sound
>>> engineers. I wouldn't think "sound engineer" is something you could read
>>> about.
>>
>> You're probably right about that.
>>
>> Even if this isn't the case, it's unlikely that the necessary material
>> can be accessed for free. It's more likely you'd have to pay money for
>> that.
>
> Altho I imagine with the internets' ability to deliver sound in a way
> textbooks can't, you *might* be able to learn this online.
Perhaps...
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
