Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> One of the better ones I've seen.
>
> http://web.mit.edu/~axch/www/writing_rant.html

my gosh!  So many messages and all of them irrelevant!

what is truly amusing about this is that it was written by Peter Parker himself!
o_0

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Darren New wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>>   Exactly which part of C is simpler for newbies than C++?
> 
> You don't have to deal with constructors, destructors, exceptions, the
> difference between casing classes and casting pointers to classes, etc.

Right; instead, you have to deal with a dozen different library 
implementations of object construction, destruction and error handling;
such as GObject :)

Another example: POV-Ray 3.6 has virtual functions reinvented in C (to call 
"intersect with ray" on any Object* without knowing if it's a Sphere or an 
Isosurface). It's harder to figure out what's going on than if you just had 
a C++ class with virtual methods, because no other C program does it 
**exactly** the same way as POV 3.6.

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Invisible wrote:
> I'm not familiar with Ruby, Scheme, or Mozart. Of course I've heard of
> all these things, but I don't know anything about them. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_(programming_language)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheme_(programming_language)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart

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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Warp wrote:
>>>   Exactly which part of C is simpler for newbies than C++?
>> You don't have to deal with constructors, destructors, exceptions, the
>> difference between casing classes and casting pointers to classes, etc.
> 
> Right; instead, you have to deal with a dozen different library 
> implementations of object construction, destruction and error handling;

Actually, I don't. Note the term "newbies". :-)

I honestly wouldn't teach either one as a first language. Even Pascal is 
pushing it, IME.

> Another example: POV-Ray 3.6 has virtual functions reinvented in C (to call 
> "intersect with ray" on any Object* without knowing if it's a Sphere or an 
> Isosurface). It's harder to figure out what's going on than if you just had 
> a C++ class with virtual methods, because no other C program does it 
> **exactly** the same way as POV 3.6.

Yep. And the problem is that no C program can possibly do it the same way as 
C++ in any sort of portable way. So every C++ library that uses any of this 
sort of feature is incompatible with being called by any sort of C program. 
Hence, the proliferation of such faux-OO libraries.


-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   The question in today's corporate environment is not
   so much "what color is your parachute?" as it is
   "what color is your nose?"

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Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
> > I'm not familiar with Ruby, Scheme, or Mozart. Of course I've heard of
> > all these things, but I don't know anything about them.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_(programming_language)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheme_(programming_language)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart

haha, Mozart is also an implementation of the language Oz.  Not the kingdom...
:P

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nemesis wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> Invisible wrote:
>> > I'm not familiar with Ruby, Scheme, or Mozart. Of course I've heard of
>> > all these things, but I don't know anything about them.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_(programming_language)
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheme_(programming_language)
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart
> 
> haha, Mozart is also an implementation of the language Oz.  Not the
> kingdom...
> :P

The original article was definitely referring to the composer, so I'm 
surprised Andrew says he's "not familiar with Mozart" :)

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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> The original article was definitely referring to the composer, so I'm 
> surprised Andrew says he's "not familiar with Mozart" :)

Obviously I know that there was a famous composer named Mozart. But I 
couldn't tell you what he's famous for, or what his music sounds like.

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>
> > The original article was definitely referring to the composer, so I'm
> > surprised Andrew says he's "not familiar with Mozart" :)
>
> Obviously I know that there was a famous composer named Mozart. But I
> couldn't tell you what he's famous for, or what his music sounds like.

we've been through this before, I'm sure.  But your lack of curiosity is truly
legendary.  Let me do the youtube jig for you, just with some of the most
well-known pops from the master:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lC1lRz5Z_s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKhH2hRa-WQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r65goW_dzs0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkT07TP-mo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxGy83aipbY

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>> Obviously I know that there was a famous composer named Mozart. But I
>> couldn't tell you what he's famous for, or what his music sounds like.
> 
> we've been through this before, I'm sure.  But your lack of curiosity is truly
> legendary.

For somebody who knows how to use the z-transform to design IIR digital 
filters for no reason other than curiosity, that statement seems a 
little dubious. ;-)

It would be more accurate to say that certain subjects do not interest me.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lC1lRz5Z_s

This is the kind of thing I'd hear on the radio and completely ignore 
due to its blandness.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKhH2hRa-WQ

This one is of course quite well-known. I never liked it very much.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r65goW_dzs0

Another fairly well-known one that I don't like much.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkT07TP-mo

Now we're getting somewhere. This at least didn't have me bored to tears.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxGy83aipbY

Oh dear.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >> Obviously I know that there was a famous composer named Mozart. But I
> >> couldn't tell you what he's famous for, or what his music sounds like.
> >
> > we've been through this before, I'm sure.  But your lack of curiosity is truly
> > legendary.
>
> For somebody who knows how to use the z-transform to design IIR digital
> filters for no reason other than curiosity, that statement seems a
> little dubious. ;-)
>
> It would be more accurate to say that certain subjects do not interest me.

By the level of cultural knowledge you display here, I'd say most. :)

> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lC1lRz5Z_s
>
> This is the kind of thing I'd hear on the radio and completely ignore
> due to its blandness.

blandness... I see.

> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKhH2hRa-WQ
>
> This one is of course quite well-known. I never liked it very much.
>
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r65goW_dzs0
>
> Another fairly well-known one that I don't like much.
>
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkT07TP-mo
>
> Now we're getting somewhere. This at least didn't have me bored to tears.
>
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxGy83aipbY
>
> Oh dear.

well, aside from you lack of taste, you at least recognize Mozart music, which
was the original point.

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