You know, I'm not sure on the State of the Union address - I had 
completely spaced it.  Will have to check it out.

It sounded like he was going to freeze spending.

I've said to some of my conservative friends that I wish that Obama would 
do a little of what Bush did - just do what he thinks is right and don't 
care what other people think - especially those on the other side.

At least that way, those of us who are on the left could have some of the 
things we want instead of trying to negotiate for everything.

Part of the problem, though, is the Democratic Party has such a broad 
base, the representation ranges from centrist to progressive - and they 
can't agree on anything.  Jon Stewart was right to make fun of them for 
not being able to get anything done in spite of having a larger majority 
in the Senate than the Republicans have since something like 1923.

Jim

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:49:42 -0500, nemesis wrote:
>
> >> Oh, that's easy.  "Women are cooler than men!"
> >
> > they are much hotter.
>
> Guys are sweatier, though.

what do you expect? next to a hottie after all?

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On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:21:10 -0500, nemesis wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:49:42 -0500, nemesis wrote:
>>
>> >> Oh, that's easy.  "Women are cooler than men!"
>> >
>> > they are much hotter.
>>
>> Guys are sweatier, though.
> 
> what do you expect? next to a hottie after all?

LOL

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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Compare the number of lies spread about Obama
> (in comparison to the amount
> of true stories), explained here: ...


An interesting sociological observation that could perhaps be proven with
research is the following.  I've done a lot of browsing on political websites,
and I think that I see a lot more sexual references interspersed into the nasty
things said about Obama than I ever did in reference to Bush.  People may have
disagreed with both for good reason, and mean people may have said nasty things
about both, but this different theme keeps popping up again and again against
Obama.  I think it has to do with racist associations about sexuality, forced or
forbidden.  One of my facebook friends used some of this kind of language in an
update to diss Obama, then a month later (December) asked us to "remember the
reason for the season."  Would like to see (actually, no I wouldn't) what kind
of religious catechism he'd write.

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On 1/27/2010 5:11 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> You know, I'm not sure on the State of the Union address - I had
> completely spaced it.  Will have to check it out.
>
> It sounded like he was going to freeze spending.
>
> I've said to some of my conservative friends that I wish that Obama would
> do a little of what Bush did - just do what he thinks is right and don't
> care what other people think - especially those on the other side.
>
> At least that way, those of us who are on the left could have some of the
> things we want instead of trying to negotiate for everything.
>
> Part of the problem, though, is the Democratic Party has such a broad
> base, the representation ranges from centrist to progressive - and they
> can't agree on anything.  Jon Stewart was right to make fun of them for
> not being able to get anything done in spite of having a larger majority
> in the Senate than the Republicans have since something like 1923.
>
> Jim
Yeah, he did say he was going to freeze it. Nearly everyone involve with 
economics says this is a bloody stupid idea, not the least due to how 
much the bloody government *spends* on things in the private sector, to 
support all the stuff being frozen.

What some people, including me, find so idiotic about this is McCain 
***ran on*** the idea that we should freeze spending, as a solution to 
the economic problem. Now that Obama is doing it, McCain is whining that 
it doesn't, "Go far enough!".

Seeing the right react to everything done by Democrats, including when 
those things are the very ideas they **themselves** ran on, is like 
watching the two clones running for President on Futurama:

"Jack Johnson: I say your three cent titanium tax goes too far.

John Jackson: And I say your three cent titanium tax doesn't go too far 
enough!"

Its funnier than hell, until you consider that many of these clowns 
*got* elected, and McCain only missed with a Palin pick for VP. (Rhyms 
conveniently with appalling).

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

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"gregjohn" <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote in message
news:web.4b623c39e9f0323c34d207310@news.povray.org...
> Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:

> > Compare the number of lies spread about Obama
> > (in comparison to the amount
> > of true stories), explained here: ...

> An interesting sociological observation that could perhaps be proven with
> research is the following.  I've done a lot of browsing on political
websites,
> and I think that I see a lot more sexual references interspersed into the
nasty
> things said about Obama than I ever did in reference to Bush.

I've not seen any significant number of sexual references for either. You
are probably thinking of Clinton.

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On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 22:10:21 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:

> What some people, including me, find so idiotic about this is McCain
> ***ran on*** the idea that we should freeze spending, as a solution to
> the economic problem. Now that Obama is doing it, McCain is whining that
> it doesn't, "Go far enough!".

Yep.  I had a debate with some self-confessed ultra-conservatives who 
were railing against Obama for the bank bailout.  I rather pointedly 
asked if they would have rather had unemployment skyrocket with all these 
banks and auto companies failed so they could be complaining about that 
instead.

Not a single one had an answer to that question.

Because truth be told, if Obama had said "let the banks and car companies 
fail", they'd have been screaming about that instead, about how Obama was 
causing unemployment to skyrocket.

It's a case where there was no way to win.

Of course, now that the Democrats have lost Ted Kennedy's seat in the 
Senate, we're pretty hosed; after all, they only have the second largest 
majority in 32 years in the Senate, control of the house and the white 
house.  With that lack of power, there's no way they'll be able to get 
anything passed without giving some serious concessions to the Republican 
*-19* vote majority in the Senate.

I'm pretty fed up with the Democrats right now.  I think I'm voting 
independent next time around.  They control 2 of 3 branches of government 
and *still* can't get anything done.  What a bunch of tossers.

> Seeing the right react to everything done by Democrats, including when
> those things are the very ideas they **themselves** ran on, is like
> watching the two clones running for President on Futurama:

LOL, that is a great one.

Jim

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On 2/1/2010 10:15 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> I'm pretty fed up with the Democrats right now.  I think I'm voting
> independent next time around.  They control 2 of 3 branches of government
> and *still* can't get anything done.  What a bunch of tossers.
>
Sadly, it *is* possible to blame the president for a lot of it. There 
was a statement made on a blog when he was running, by the blogger that, 
"My greatest fear is that he is someone that badly wants to be liked by 
everyone, and this will result in him not doing anything if its making 
the opposition unhappy.", or something to that general effect. Its not 
*precisely* the case, but he is trying to bridge a gap between a 
political party that is what the conservatives where, in too many ways, 
in the 30-40s, with one whose membership seems to belong to nothing but 
evangelical, right wing, churches, or just got off the bus from the 
national institute of the insane, which has a special wing set aside for 
people who are perpetual liars. What is left of the "core" of the 
republicans is being sidelined by the nutcases, the nutcases think 
*anything* vaguely liberal is evil, especially if you suggest that the 
world isn't run by a religious version of Andrew Ryan from Bioshock, and 
his ultra-libertarianism and rampant conspiracy theories, and members of 
the Democrats are even turning out, like in the case of Liberman, to be 
bloody sleeper agents.

But, they have spent so damn long "compromising" at every turn, 
including on their own principles, and moving right of center, that, 
without someone willing to stand up and say, "This will stop.", not, "I 
really wish, if you would like, hopefully, that you will sort of stop 
this, not that you are really doing it.", they can't do anything but 
what they did for the last several decades, and compromise everything.

I love that Obama stands up and says that people are being 
obstructionists and doing stupid things, especially in the last few 
speeches, but he has got to get past the assumption that the people 
holding the puppet string in the Republican party give a crap about 
being wrong, doing wrong, or fixing problems, unless it helps them 
personally.

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

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On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:34:09 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:

> I love that Obama stands up and says that people are being
> obstructionists and doing stupid things, especially in the last few
> speeches, but he has got to get past the assumption that the people
> holding the puppet string in the Republican party give a crap about
> being wrong, doing wrong, or fixing problems, unless it helps them
> personally.

Agreed.  He needs to stop talking about doing things and just do them.

I'm also inclined to agree with Doris Kearns Goodwin (who was on Jon 
Stewart's show last week) who said that Obama and the Democratic 
leadership in the Senate should just let the GOP filibuster - then people 
can see what a bunch of tossers *they* are.

I often feel that the whole of DC just needs to have a big cage put 
around it; then we'll have locked up a fairly significant number of 
criminals who peddle in influence over laws.

But I think the real solution would be to return political positions to 
being an unpaid (and cannot-accept-gifts under ANY ANY ANY circumstances) 
positions.  Give them a studio apartment in DC and a stipend, but never 
let them forget that they work for the *people*.  Take away the salaries, 
the high-end health plans, and all of the benefits.  Make it truly a 
public service that they fulfill.

And put term limits in place.

But of course for any of these things to happen, those in power have to 
decide to put those restrictions on themselves.  Like *that* will ever 
happen.

Jim

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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message

> But I think the real solution would be to return political positions to
> being an unpaid (and cannot-accept-gifts under ANY ANY ANY circumstances)
> positions.  Give them a studio apartment in DC and a stipend, but never
> let them forget that they work for the *people*.  Take away the salaries,
> the high-end health plans, and all of the benefits.  Make it truly a
> public service that they fulfill.

Don't you want the exact opposite? Pay them through the roof (I'm thinking
in the millions) so they will be less tempted to take "gifts" (bribes) and
much more to lose by doing so. Then send packs of hungry lawyers after them
to uncover any wrongdoing.

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