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Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
> Page 19 shows 38.5 people, which comes out to an average of $78K/year, which
> still isn't what I'd call a lot of money in San Francisco for tech,
> fundraising, or finance&admin work.
Salaries are filthy high in the US, especially taking into account that
taxes and expenses in general are considerably lower than here.
AFAIK the average MSc in Finland earns much less than that, has to pay
a lot more in taxes and living expenses are much higher.
I'm probably biased because of living here, but $78K/year is what I call
"filthy rich".
> > Why do they need to spend 335000 dollars in travel, from donated money?
> > Are they using golden limousines or something? Have they ever heard of
> > buses and trains?
> That doesn't really work in the USA. Unless you want to travel for 14 hours
> to have a 2-hour meeting in the next city over. Stuff is surprisingly far
> apart in the US compared to what many Europeans are used to.
How much does the average plane flight from one city to another in the
US cost? I have no idea, but I'd bet it should be *at most* in the order
of $1000 (and I'm probably overestimating. That would mean one plane flight
almost every day of the year.
--
- Warp
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On 11/24/09 18:17, Darren New wrote:
> Just so ya know... The people running the cash registers at the grocery
> store in my city? $17/hour. $50/hour for experienced technical people is
> well underpaid.
The key phrase is "my city".<G>
--
DOS means never having to live hand-to-mouse
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On 11/24/09 16:31, Warp wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez<nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>>
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/a/a3/2009-10_Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan_FINAL_July2.pdf
>
> 3 million dollars in salaries? For 35 people that's over 7100 dollars a
> month. That's quite a salary for a free project funded by donations, I must
> say.
It's a good salary, but need not be very high depending on where you
live. If you need your staff to be quite good, pay them more then what
the competition pays. That rule still applies to nonprofits, etc.
--
DOS means never having to live hand-to-mouse
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On 11/24/09 18:28, Warp wrote:
> Darren New<dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Page 19 shows 38.5 people, which comes out to an average of $78K/year, which
>> still isn't what I'd call a lot of money in San Francisco for tech,
>> fundraising, or finance&admin work.
>
> Salaries are filthy high in the US, especially taking into account that
> taxes and expenses in general are considerably lower than here.
They may be high, but they're not filthy.<G>
If there's a fundamental problem with high salaries, then blame the
economic system, not the companies or Wikimedia.
> AFAIK the average MSc in Finland earns much less than that, has to pay
> a lot more in taxes and living expenses are much higher.
>
> I'm probably biased because of living here, but $78K/year is what I call
> "filthy rich".
Well, I recall a comparison of what senior people in a category of
IT/programming make in different countries (I forgot exactly what
category, but it wasn't some obscure one). Finland was well above the
US, and either it or Norway were top among industrialized countries.
And you have to take cost of living into account. $78000/yr is really
good in many cities in the US, but as Darren pointed out, it's not
particularly high in SF, where the cost of living is very high. It
wouldn't surprise me if any particularly good programmer with an MS
degree would refuse to work for that salary over there.
How much do you pay in rent?
And I never understood the system too well, but perhaps that 78000 is
supposed to cover additional expenses not counted as the salary (health
insurance benefits, retirement benefits, etc). So the actual "salary"
that the employee receives may be less. In a company that provide
employees with health insurance, if everyone's salary is officially
$70,000, the company is paying quite a bit more than 70,000 times the
number of people, and their books will perhaps indicate it as such.
Some of your concerns may be valid, but I'm not sure I see the need for
excessive griping. As long as they're providing the relevant
information, you can do the analysis (as you're doing), and simply
choose not to donate. There's nothing morally wrong with them taking
first class plane flights on donated money, as long as they don't
mislead anyone about it...
--
DOS means never having to live hand-to-mouse
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Warp wrote:
> I'm probably biased because of living here, but $78K/year is what I call
> "filthy rich".
It also depends where you live. That's pretty low for San Francisco, but
very high for (say) some small town in the mid-west.
> How much does the average plane flight from one city to another in the
> US cost?
It depends how far in advance you schedule and such; it varies from $100 to
several thousand, even for adjacent seats on the same flight. Generally with
a bit of brains you can keep it under a three hundred dollars. Then there
might be hotel expenses, food, transportation (taxi, car rental, etc), and
so on. But yeah, if you can't keep it under $1000/day for travel, you're
probably doing something wrong. But you can drive cross-country on a bus for
like $100 if you want to take a week to do that.
Even the salaries might seem high, given it's a $78K *average*. But they're
not counting janitors, receptionists, etc., so having everyone at the high
end doesn't seem unreasonable there.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
You know the kamikaze monsters in Serious Sam
with the bombs for hands, that go AAAAAHHHHHHHH!
I want that for a ring tone.
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Neeum Zawan wrote:
> On 11/24/09 18:17, Darren New wrote:
>> Just so ya know... The people running the cash registers at the grocery
>> store in my city? $17/hour. $50/hour for experienced technical people is
>> well underpaid.
>
> The key phrase is "my city".<G>
Right. And mine is probably a bit cheaper than San Francisco, but not a
whole lot cheaper. You're looking at one of the most desirable places to
live here.
We call it "sun tax". ;-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
You know the kamikaze monsters in Serious Sam
with the bombs for hands, that go AAAAAHHHHHHHH!
I want that for a ring tone.
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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
news:4b0c5eac@news.povray.org...
> Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/a/a3/2009-10_Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan_FINAL_July2.pdf
>
> 3 million dollars in salaries? For 35 people that's over 7100 dollars a
> month. That's quite a salary for a free project funded by donations, I
must
> say.
I agree, but it's not speific to wikipedia. A lot of charities and
organizations supported by donations bring in income for its management and
employees that rivals the richest of companies. On one hand, all those
people have to make a living too. On the other hand, the name "charity" or
"donation supported" may give a false impression to the unsuspecting public
that the organization somehow runs more efficiently or with less expense
than a commercial business. If anything, tax breaks and non-competitiveness
results in more inefficiencies and more luxury-class expenses.
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Warp wrote:
> I'm probably biased because of living here, but $78K/year is what I call
> "filthy rich".
Actually, if they mean "payroll expenses" instead of "salaries and wages",
then this $78K includes health insurance, dental insurance, vision insurance
to buy glasses with, prescription drug insurance, worker's compensation
(another insurance mandated by the government), unemployment insurance (that
pays people after you fire them), social security insurance (a tax that pays
what's essentially pensions for retired people without pensions that isn't
in any sense insurance), potentially life insurance and whatever
pension/retirement stuff the company wants to pay, along with the
administrative overhead for such (like the cost of dealing with the
insurance companies, the retirement fund companies, etc).
The taxes are going to add up to at least 10% or 15% of that number, even if
you provide the minimum you're allowed to provide. And if I was going to run
a company with only 30 employees, I'd certainly have the company provide for
us an excellent insurance and retirement package.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
You know the kamikaze monsters in Serious Sam
with the bombs for hands, that go AAAAAHHHHHHHH!
I want that for a ring tone.
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>> The key phrase is "my city".<G>
>
> Right. And mine is probably a bit cheaper than San Francisco, but not a
> whole lot cheaper. You're looking at one of the most desirable places to
> live here.
>
> We call it "sun tax". ;-)
They have sun in SF?
[YES, I'M JOKING!]
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>> We call it "sun tax". ;-)
>
> They have sun in SF?
Dunno, when I was there is was foggy as hell the whole time (this was
January though).
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