>> Hey, *my* knowledge isn't even useful to my *current* employer! :-P
> 
> But it could be useful to another employer :-P

Hey, if you know of such an employer who's actually hiring, let me know! ;-)

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>> I mean stuff like knowing which departments deal with which problems,
>> what order a customer request has to go from place to place to get stuff
>> done, things like that. Stuff that's perculiar to the particular
>> department structure that BT has chosen to implement.
> 
> That's very useful information to know if you're on the outside and need 
> help.  There are probably companies that would love to get their hands on 
> an employee who has that kind of inside knowledge.

Well, perhaps. Good luck finding 'em though.

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>> But it could be useful to another employer :-P
>
> Hey, if you know of such an employer who's actually hiring, let me know! 
> ;-)

I don't think any employer exists that is advertising the perfect job that 
exactly matches what you want to do with no mention of anything that you 
remotely dislike...

It seems to me that out of the thousands of IT jobs being advertised, you 
actually prefer the job you have at the moment.

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>>> But it could be useful to another employer :-P
>>
>> Hey, if you know of such an employer who's actually hiring, let me 
>> know! ;-)
> 
> I don't think any employer exists that is advertising the perfect job 
> that exactly matches what you want to do with no mention of anything 
> that you remotely dislike...

I agree.

My point is actually this: I know about data compression, cryptology, 
DSP, complex numbers, statistics, logic circuits, numerical integration, 
sound synthesis, differential calculus, functional programming, data 
structures and algorithms... I could go on. Now, who *the hell* is going 
to care about any of these things?

> It seems to me that out of the thousands of IT jobs being advertised, 
> you actually prefer the job you have at the moment.

Heh, if only I could *find* thousands of IT jobs! :-P

Actually, I've been thinking about this one. Maybe I'm setting my sights 
too high. Maybe I just need to accept that nobody is ever going to pay 
me to write computer programs, and start looking for boring sysadmin 
jobs instead... Those surely have drastically greater availability, and 
at least I can claim to have real, relevant commercial experience.

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> My point is actually this: I know about data compression, cryptology, DSP, 
> complex numbers, statistics, logic circuits, numerical integration, sound 
> synthesis, differential calculus, functional programming, data structures 
> and algorithms... I could go on. Now, who *the hell* is going to care 
> about any of these things?

Nobody.  95% of what I know I won't use in my job.  In another job it might 
be a different 5% that I use, but it's not going to be much more than that.

> Heh, if only I could *find* thousands of IT jobs! :-P

monster.co.uk "IT support" gives several thousand.

> Actually, I've been thinking about this one. Maybe I'm setting my sights 
> too high. Maybe I just need to accept that nobody is ever going to pay me 
> to write computer programs,

See to me you don't seem like the type that would enjoy someone pressuring 
you every day to get some code finished and out the door (that you might not 
be 100% happy with), you seem to prefer the more relaxed "hobby" attitude of 
programming (as do I).

> and start looking for boring sysadmin jobs instead... Those surely have 
> drastically greater availability, and at least I can claim to have real, 
> relevant commercial experience.

a) Almost any "boring sysadmin job" is going to pay more than you are 
getting now
b) I suspect quite a lot of sysadmin jobs would give you the opportunity to 
write programs at a more leisurely pace than if it was your main job

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>> My point is actually this: I know about data compression, cryptology, 
>> DSP, complex numbers, statistics, logic circuits, numerical 
>> integration, sound synthesis, differential calculus, functional 
>> programming, data structures and algorithms... I could go on. Now, who 
>> *the hell* is going to care about any of these things?
> 
> Nobody.  95% of what I know I won't use in my job.  In another job it 
> might be a different 5% that I use, but it's not going to be much more 
> than that.

I said "any", not "all".

It seems difficult to imagine a job which requires numerical integration 
*and* cryptology, for example. But personally, I can't imagine getting 
hired for a job where even one of the above is useful. I mean, sure, 
somebody somewhere designs ICs for a living. And somebody, somewhere 
else, designs bridges. Have *you* ever met a bridge designer??

>> Heh, if only I could *find* thousands of IT jobs! :-P
> 
> monster.co.uk "IT support" gives several thousand.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying; maybe I should look at support instead of 
programming.

>> Actually, I've been thinking about this one. Maybe I'm setting my 
>> sights too high. Maybe I just need to accept that nobody is ever going 
>> to pay me to write computer programs,
> 
> See to me you don't seem like the type that would enjoy someone 
> pressuring you every day to get some code finished and out the door 
> (that you might not be 100% happy with), you seem to prefer the more 
> relaxed "hobby" attitude of programming (as do I).

Possibly.

> a) Almost any "boring sysadmin job" is going to pay more than you are 
> getting now.

Wouldn't be hard, eh? ;-)

> b) I suspect quite a lot of sysadmin jobs would give you the opportunity 
> to write programs at a more leisurely pace than if it was your main job.

Well, my current sysadmin job does...

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> But personally, I can't imagine getting hired for a job where even one of 
> the above is useful. I mean, sure, somebody somewhere designs ICs for a 
> living.

Several people in my department have designed ICs at some point or another, 
for LCD drivers or just general stuff for test equipment.  I imagine a lot 
of electrical engineering jobs elsewhere require such skills without being 
solely an "IC designer".

> And somebody, somewhere else, designs bridges. Have *you* ever met a 
> bridge designer??

Yes, several, although having done an engineering degree probably helps to 
meet them :-)

The point is that mostly you don't recruit a "bridge designer" or an "IC 
designer", you want a structural engineer or an electrical engineer.  Being 
able to design bridges or ICs is just one of the skills you need them to 
possess in order to do their job.

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>> But personally, I can't imagine getting hired for a job where even one 
>> of the above is useful. I mean, sure, somebody somewhere designs ICs 
>> for a living.
> 
> Several people in my department have designed ICs at some point or 
> another, for LCD drivers or just general stuff for test equipment.  I 
> imagine a lot of electrical engineering jobs elsewhere require such 
> skills without being solely an "IC designer".
> 
>> And somebody, somewhere else, designs bridges. Have *you* ever met a 
>> bridge designer??
> 
> Yes, several, although having done an engineering degree probably helps 
> to meet them :-)
> 
> The point is that mostly you don't recruit a "bridge designer" or an "IC 
> designer", you want a structural engineer or an electrical engineer.  
> Being able to design bridges or ICs is just one of the skills you need 
> them to possess in order to do their job.

Of course, when I think about designing ICs, I'm thinking strictly about 
purely digital "logic" devices such as microprocessors or crypto units. 
There are of course other types...

My point is, it seems almost unimaginable to me that real people 
actually get hired to do technical jobs such as these. It's the 
equivilent of being a world-class violinist. Sure, such people must 
exist somewhere, but you're never going to meet one, and *I* will 
certainly never become one.

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> Of course, when I think about designing ICs, I'm thinking strictly about 
> purely digital "logic" devices such as microprocessors or crypto units. 
> There are of course other types...

There's probably more "other types" being designed than microprocessors or 
crypto units, by a long way.  What about FPGAs?  Those are also really 
common to use across many industries, someone has to program those.

> My point is, it seems almost unimaginable to me that real people actually 
> get hired to do technical jobs such as these.

It seems unimaginable to you that anyone does anything apart from the people 
*you* meet.  Try to think a bit "behind the scenes", there is a huge 
industry for designing and building ICs.  I can't begin to imagine how many 
people are employed in total in the IC industry worldwide, let alone the 
people who are designing small ICs "in-house" for internal use.  Do you 
think just a few dozen people designed every single IC that is available 
today between them?  (Just look at the ST Micro website to see sheer 
quantity of ICs available)

> It's the equivilent of being a world-class violinist.

Only if you're world renowned as one of the top IC designers in the world, 
probably some fellow of the IC designers institute (or whatever it is 
actually called) and giving lots of sessions at conferences etc.

> Sure, such people must exist somewhere, but you're never going to meet 
> one,

Not in work unless your job is somehow related, and out of work it will be 
random chance, so the more people you meet the more likely you are to meet 
someone who designs ICs :-)  I'd be very surprised if nobody in your company 
knew someone who had designed an IC.

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Invisible wrote:
> Now, who *the hell* is going to care about any of these things?

Google. University research labs. Amazon.com. Lots and lots of places need 
those sorts of skills.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Is God willing to prevent naglams, but unable?
     Then he is not omnipotent.
   Is he able, but not willing, to prevent naglams?
     Then he is malevolent.

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