Invisible wrote:
> How about "you will meet these impossible targets I've set you or I'll 
> fire you and you'll have to go live on the street"? How does that strike 
> you?

I'd start looking for a new job. I've been fired often enough before it's 
not a big deal to me, I fear. That comes from working for start-ups for a 
long time. But I've always been financially conservative, so I've never been 
so broke I'd be out on the street by getting fired.

As I said, it isn't a cut on you mom.  I just can't relate.  I'll shut up 
now. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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Invisible wrote:
> She spent about 10 years installing people's telephones, running 
> telephone cables, diagnosing network faults, etc.

OK. That would be the monopoly part, yes. :-)

Maybe look at a construction company who wants someone experienced when 
wiring up new buildings?

> Now she just works in a call center where people ring her up to whine 
> about their phone not working and demand that somebody come and fix it 
> yesterday.

Huh. It's hard to believe there are performance targets that can't get 
scammed there, given the number of places you read about (for example) AOL 
customer service reps just hanging up on customers to keep their call volume 
high. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
     Is God willing to prevent phrogams, but not able?
       Then he is not omnipotent.
     Is he able, but not willing, to prevent phrogams?
       Then he is malevolent.

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news:4b02ae34$1@news.povray.org...

> I don't really know what the right course of action here is. But certainly 
> this kind of behaviour is unacceptable, and should not be legal.

This is exactly what has been happening in France with France Telecom (aka 
Orange). It took around 25 suicides (a guy even stabbed himself in the 
stomach during a meeting) for things to become public. It's been a matter a 
national debate in the past months and some corporate heads were cut. It's 
difficult to say if things are really going to change but at least the 
victims are no longer alone wondering what they did wrong.
In any case, it's really a matter of employees banding together, going 
public with this and making as much noise as possible. The harassement 
methods you describe are 100% identical to those used by FT (down to the 
people targeted by the bullying, i.e. senior engineers), so there's a 
precedent for it.

G.

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Invisible wrote:
> [If you want to enjoy the rest of today, don't bother reading this post...]
> ...

No advice, but my condolences on your/her situation and I hope she 
quickly finds a place to work which actually treats her well.

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Invisible wrote:

> So, does anybody have any *constructive* suggestions for how to remedy 
> this unholy situation?
> 

She could always take a sickie for a while and play the system.

I know this is no proper answer but maybe a few weeks away from the 
workplace would calm her nerves.

far. She needs a break before her health suffers any more. {This is from 
personal (not mine) experience}


-- 

Best Regards,
	Stephen

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First my sympathies for what has happened to your Madam Mother, I'd feel 
the same, and I'd have gone there and made some "aggressive 
negotiations" asking explanation and threatened to sue them to the full 
extent of the law, but that would be me, and maybe I wouldn't do it, 
taking law in your hands is when things start get out of control and you 
make more damage than good, IMO that should be done only when everything 
else fails.

(Dude, no offense, but I really hope this is not a "heavy" joke, that 
would be something extremely stupid to do).

I won't make a long and/or complicated post since is the last thing you 
need. What I would do:

Can the public prosecutor do something for you? Also, If you have a 
lawyer friend consult about suing them, mental and emotional anguish is 
a win card for law suits I think, at least for what I have seen on U.S.A 
trial movies, there you'd have a very solid case and a millionaire 
amount of money after it, for what I had seen and know about U.S.A. 
legal system. Anyway, try to get legal advice, any reasonable person 
would be on your side.

Go to the media, I think some lawyers reinforce these kind of cases this 
way, and is only fair the UK Government and people know what some 
companies are doing with their Countrymen/women. Check with your lawyer 
about it, just in case, but this would be my best bet; imagine it gets 
aired internationally? even if it doesn't, I don't think authorities 
will take any chances and start doing some work on their own to get this 
solved.

Starting is always harder so, it'll get uglier before it gets prettier, 
hold on buddy, this merits a good fight, so the truth can prevail.

All I can say, get all the legal advice you can get, all lawyers you 
know, get them to help you, if possible, notify your friends and 
relatives, I think they should know and probably will help, I'm sure 
such offensive behavior is Illegal. You and your mother, once he can 
recover a little, have to fight this injustice.

BTW, That kind of horrendous amount of stress, suffering and anguish can 
physically damage a person, let alone emotional. IMO your Mother needs 
all the support from your family and friends, psychology and medical 
too, if she can't go to the doctor you go see one, or bring one to your 
house. Get some money man, you'll need it.

Sorry to be harsh on my evaluation of your situation but are solid 
facts, at least I think they are, where you can stand with confidence 
and start building a solution on it.

I wish I could do more for you both.

I'll pray for your Mother and you. Best of lucks.

Saul.

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I'd recommend to fight back, as you verified, some bullies won't stop 
until you make them, so fight with all you got if you must and then 
change environment if necessary. Our fears make problems and enemies 
greater than they really are and it what keeps us from progress/change.

I suffered some kind of harassment and I didn't tried to kick my boss' 
ass because of my professional reputation and the respect I have for the 
place I work, but sometimes you need to put people in their place by 
force, or you'll never receive respect from them, so first respect 
yourself more and demand respect as you give to others, everyone needs 
and wants this but some stupid people think they can avoid this rule, 
maybe they can, BUT DON'T LET THEM WITHOUT A GOOD FIGHT!!! Assuming you 
have depleted all other resources. I'm not a friend of taking the law in 
your hands, but if it comes to a point where the law won't help you, 
well you have to help yourself to survive.

Good people suffer the stupidity of some people with small souls.

Your own fears are always the greatest of enemies, so you MUST face them 
first. Don't drink more than you need from the Sea of Violence.

Best Regards.

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>> You don't have to tell me exactly which part of BT she works for, but it 
>> seems *really* unlikely that no other company needs those skills.
>
> Last time I checked, BT ownes the entire telephone network. Nobody else is 
> allowed to touch it.

And no other company manages similar (albeit smaller) such networks?  Sorry, 
but I'm just struggling to think what she does that wouldn't be needed in 
any other company in the country.

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> Maybe it's just me, but if someone at work actually raised their voice to 
> me out of something other than momentary anger, I'd just laugh in their 
> face and tell them to grow up.

I think I'd just ignore them and make a comment like "are you done now, i 
have to work".

> Not to minimize your mom's feelings, but I just can't relate.

I know a few people (mostly female actually) who I think would react the 
same way as Andrew's mum.  It's not nice when someone you love is feeling 
that way.

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>> She spent about 10 years installing people's telephones, running 
>> telephone cables, diagnosing network faults, etc.
> 
> OK. That would be the monopoly part, yes. :-)
> 
> Maybe look at a construction company who wants someone experienced when 
> wiring up new buildings?

...except that she doesn't do that any more. She ended up in the call 
center because she was getting too old for lugging ladders and stuff 
around in all weather.

>> Now she just works in a call center where people ring her up to whine 
>> about their phone not working and demand that somebody come and fix it 
>> yesterday.
> 
> Huh. It's hard to believe there are performance targets that can't get 
> scammed there, given the number of places you read about (for example) 
> AOL customer service reps just hanging up on customers to keep their 
> call volume high. :-)

Well, this is it. The call handling target *was* 500 seconds per call.

It should be self-evident that this is completely impossible.

- If somebody calls you and spends 25 minutes screaming at you about how 
**** your company is before they will even tell you what they're calling 
about, you cannot complete the call in 500 seconds. [Yes, this is 
apparently a *daily* occurrance. Some people apparently think they're 
important or something.]

- If some little old lady calls you, and you have to repeat yourself six 
times before she even hears what you said properly (never mind 
understands what you're asking), you cannot complete the call in 500 
seconds.

- If you have to transfer the call to another department, and they take 
20 minutes to pick up the phone, you cannot end in the call in 500 seconds.

Would you like me to continue?

Of course, earlier this year the target was suddenly reduced to 450 
seconds. And then 420 seconds. And then 390 seconds. And now it stands 
at 360 seconds. It's "always" been 500 seconds, but now suddenly the 
keep reducing it every few months. Oh, you're still expected to do the 
same *work*, just faster.

(I could give you a long list of things you're supposed to do. You're 
supposed to start with a standard greeting. You're supposed to collect 
certain data to verify you're speaking to the authorised account holder. 
If you send an engineer, you're supposed to warn the customer that they 
may be charged. At the end of the call you're supposed to repeat the 
agreed actions. And so on and so forth. In 360 seconds...)

You're also not supposed to hang up. And you're not supposed to 
interrupt the customer, under any circumstances. (Great when they spent 
25 minutes telling you that they consider members of the phylum 
Platyhelminthes to be of greatly superior evolutionary development to 
yourself...)

Apparently the only people more unreasonably than the company is the 
customers. Like the people running a business from their house. Phone 
stops working, they want 4-hour turnaround fixing it, or else £1,000 per 
hour for every hour they're out of service, because that's how much 
money they claim to be losing by not having a phone. But, obviously, 
these people are paying residential phone rates....... Um, yeah, nice try.

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