Darren New wrote:

> if you compile and install from source, it's not going to bump 
> the use count on your libraries.

Excellent fun. Compile something from source, and the package manager 
doesn't know you have it, and tries to install it again.

Weirdly, most software you compile from scratch has an uncanny ability 
to figure out what libraries are installed, no matter whether you're 
using RPM or DEB or EMERGE or...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> I had that.
>>
>> Then I discovered that it can't delete the IE web cache. (Due to some 
>> kind of weirdness with it being system and hidden or something like 
>> that.)
> 
> Well, you do have to turn that off. "attrib -h -s junkdir /s"

Yeah, I think I tried that too. Basically there was something or other 
"magical" about that folder. Windows Explorer could delete it, but from 
the DOS box is was unclear whether it existed, couldn't quite be 
deleted, etc. I don't know if it was the attributes or the desktop.ini 
file or just a magic path hard-coded into the system or what... Tcl 
killed it without difficulty though. Haskell too. (All the more amusing, 
since Haskell is running under a Unix emulator...)

>> Even built a little Tk GUI for it, so you can see how much longer it's 
>> going to take. (Deleting 0.8GB of web cache takes a while...)
> 
> You can do this with "disk cleanup" tho.

Not programatically. And not on a roaming profiles folder on the server.

> Damn, you need a new job.

Really?! o_O

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
> 
>> if you compile and install from source, it's not going to bump the use 
>> count on your libraries.
> 
> Excellent fun. Compile something from source, and the package manager 
> doesn't know you have it, and tries to install it again.

Or you get to make up a package file by hand.

The worst I ever dealth with was a package that needed a very specific 
version of Boost, and since Linux doesn't do the whole "side by side" thing 
very well,

> Weirdly, most software you compile from scratch has an uncanny ability 
> to figure out what libraries are installed, no matter whether you're 
> using RPM or DEB or EMERGE or...

It's not that uncanny. It tries to compile the code, and if the compiler 
returns error messages, it knows why.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Weirdly, most software you compile from scratch has an uncanny ability 
> to figure out what libraries are installed, no matter whether you're 
> using RPM or DEB or EMERGE or...

  Most libraries are installed in a directory which the compiler directly
checks when you tell it to link that library in. Thus to check whether the
library is in the system it's enough to try and compile something which
tries to link that library and see if it succeeds.

  Moreover, all libraries are installed in the same few semi-standard system
directories in all popular Unix-based operating systems, so even if the
compiler is not used to check for the existence of the library, it's just a
matter of looking for them in those established directories.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> You can do this with "disk cleanup" tho.
> Not programatically. And not on a roaming profiles folder on the server.

True. Not without COM, and not if the profiles aren't logged in.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
> > I understood your point.  Hand-compiled and installed povray or any 
> > other is of no concern to the package manager.  Thus, it'll uninstall 
> > libpng without caring if hand-compiled povray uses it or not.  It 
> > doesn't even know hand-compiled povray exists.  Nor should it.

> "It'll break your code, *and* it *should*!"  Ah, the mindset you can get 
> away with when writing non-commercial software. :-)

  What's the package manager going to do? Scan the entire system for
executables which might be using that library? Sure, it could do that,
if you want to wait.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
>   What's the package manager going to do? Scan the entire system for
> executables which might be using that library? Sure, it could do that,
> if you want to wait.

Even that wouldn't necessarily work. Note I didn't say there was an easy fix 
for the problem. I was mocking the attitude that since there isn't an *easy* 
fix, then it *should* break.  I.e., that the attitude is "this should be 
broken" rather than "this is regrettably broken."

But sure, if you uninstall stuff and it leaves libraries around, I can 
imagine a button you could push that says "Scan all the executables right 
now and tell me what libraries are installed that no executable references." 
Along with "tell me the last time someone loaded this library."  Then you 
could clean things up that stopped being used when you deleted some package 
six months ago.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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Darren New schrieb:

>> So, Windows is actually a lot better at this... /theoretically/.
> 
> I wouldn't say that. It's just that the installer for WIndows comes with 
> the program. If I compile something from scratch on Windows and it uses 
> some DLL, I'm not going to be able to ensure that DLL doesn't get 
> deleted out of the system either.

Yes, but I *can* roll my own installer to do it.

And it's standardized. It's not like I'd need to make an installer for 
Debian, another for Ubuntu, yet another for what-have-you-not...

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Orchid XP v8 schrieb:
> 
> Weirdly, most software you compile from scratch has an uncanny ability 
> to figure out what libraries are installed, no matter whether you're 
> using RPM or DEB or EMERGE or...

Have you ever had a look how that actually works?

Just look at the "configure" script for POV-Ray for an example.

That script actually goes ahead and generates source code for tiny test 
programs, and checks if they compile, link and run. For instance, if the 
script manages to compile and run a program that tries to call 
png_access_version_number(), it knows that libpng is there - and also 
what version number it is.

Of course the script first verifies that the shell is compatible with 
the command syntax used in the script, goes on to find out what compiler 
to use, and so on...

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clipka wrote:
> Yes, but I *can* roll my own installer to do it.

And you can in Debian too, at least. It's just annoying to have to do it, 
but that's what you get when you are compiling source. Basically, you make 
up a fake package description and say "here, I just installed this."

> And it's standardized. It's not like I'd need to make an installer for 
> Debian, another for Ubuntu, yet another for what-have-you-not...

Nah. One for XP, one for Vista, one for Win7... ;-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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