OK, so let's ask Wolfram Alpha:

http://tinyurl.com/l7djfe

Logically, you might expect there to be a correlation between how rare a 
profession is and how much they get paid. I don't see one.

You might also expect dangerous jobs to pay more. Doesn't seem to be the 
case.

So how about how skilled the job is? Well, there's kind-of a correlation 
there...

But mostly, I'm just surprised that [except for doctors, who are the 
clear outliers here] programmers supposedly earn more than everybody 
else, by quite some margin. (You'd expect the accountants to be ahead by 
a mile...)

Ooo, lawyers? Nope, apparently they earn (substantially) less than 
doctors. [But of course, this is only on average... No range figures to 
go at.]

Post a reply to this message

> Logically, you might expect there to be a correlation between how rare a 
> profession is and how much they get paid.

That doesn't sound very logical to me.  I think it's more to do with the 
supply and demand, ie how many posts are available compared to how many 
(suitable) people are willing to fill them.

> You might also expect dangerous jobs to pay more.

Yes, if all other factors are equal between two jobs.

> But mostly, I'm just surprised that [except for doctors, who are the clear 
> outliers here] programmers supposedly earn more than everybody else, by 
> quite some margin.

Did you try "engineer"?  FTW!

The thing with doctors/surgeons etc is that you need a lot of high quality 
education to become one *and* you have a huge responsibility with respect to 
human lives.  Also why pilots get paid quite a lot.

Post a reply to this message

>> Logically, you might expect there to be a correlation between how rare 
>> a profession is and how much they get paid.
> 
> That doesn't sound very logical to me.  I think it's more to do with the 
> supply and demand, ie how many posts are available compared to how many 
> (suitable) people are willing to fill them.

Hmm, I guess...

>> You might also expect dangerous jobs to pay more.
> 
> Yes, if all other factors are equal between two jobs.

And yet, it seems fire fighters don't actually earn much money at all. 
(Considering that their job is vitally important, ludicrously dangerous, 
highly skilled and directly relevant to human life.)

I wonder if soldiers get paid any better... nope, WA doesn't have any 
data for that one.

>> But mostly, I'm just surprised that [except for doctors, who are the 
>> clear outliers here] programmers supposedly earn more than everybody 
>> else, by quite some margin.
> 
> Did you try "engineer"?  FTW!

Heh. More than the programmers, but still nowhere near doctors. ;-)

> The thing with doctors/surgeons etc is that you need a lot of high 
> quality education to become one *and* you have a huge responsibility 
> with respect to human lives.  Also why pilots get paid quite a lot.

Pilots get more than anybody else I've looked at, but still far behind 
doctors...

Post a reply to this message

> And yet, it seems fire fighters don't actually earn much money at all.
> (Considering that their job is vitally important, ludicrously dangerous, 
> highly skilled and directly relevant to human life.)

I guess they only pay what they need to, in order to have enough fire 
fighters.  Also firefighters are paid from tax money so they have to justify 
the salaries, AIUI in the US doctors are not paid with tax money.  If you 
look at doctor's salaries in the UK (which are paid from tax money), a 
junior doctor earns about 30k GBP and a GP about 50-80k, which is not so 
different from Engineers, Programmers and other skilled jobs.

Also don't forget that everyone you've mentioned so far is earning 
above-average wages, it's not *that* bad!

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> And yet, it seems fire fighters don't actually earn much money at all.
>> (Considering that their job is vitally important, ludicrously 
>> dangerous, highly skilled and directly relevant to human life.)
> 
> I guess they only pay what they need to, in order to have enough fire 
> fighters.  Also firefighters are paid from tax money so they have to 
> justify the salaries, AIUI in the US doctors are not paid with tax 
> money.

Ah. Right.

> If you look at doctor's salaries in the UK (which are paid from 
> tax money), a junior doctor earns about 30k GBP and a GP about 50-80k, 
> which is not so different from Engineers, Programmers and other skilled 
> jobs.
> 
> Also don't forget that everyone you've mentioned so far is earning 
> above-average wages, it's not *that* bad!

Oh sure. I'm just noticing... ;-)

I was surprised that lawyers and accountants aren't paid more - but 
then, I guess the "special" ones are. Same as any other profession...

Post a reply to this message

Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> OK, so let's ask Wolfram Alpha:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/l7djfe
>
> Logically, you might expect there to be a correlation between how rare a
> profession is and how much they get paid. I don't see one.
>
> You might also expect dangerous jobs to pay more. Doesn't seem to be the
> case.
>
> So how about how skilled the job is? Well, there's kind-of a correlation
> there...
>
> But mostly, I'm just surprised that [except for doctors, who are the
> clear outliers here] programmers supposedly earn more than everybody
> else, by quite some margin. (You'd expect the accountants to be ahead by
> a mile...)
>
> Ooo, lawyers? Nope, apparently they earn (substantially) less than
> doctors. [But of course, this is only on average... No range figures to
> go at.]

Firemen don't get well paid for 2 reasons:

1) For every job advertised, there are MANY applicants - so economics keeps the
pay down.

2) It isn't a particularly dangerous job. Google 'Britain's most dangerous
jobs'. Fireman isn't even on the list for the first pick. I tried to find out
how
many firemen there are in Britain and failed, but while there are 103 per
100,000 fisherman fatalities and 3.7 per 100,000 construction worker
fatalities, firemen are well trained and equipped. Fatalities happen when they
go into huge warehouses that collapse on them, not in house fires.

Mind you, fishermen aren't too well paid either.

As for doctors vs accountants and lawyers, doctors tend to like to feel
important and will therefore over-report salaries, while accountants are well
used to minimising tax and will tend to undereport salaries. And there are
quite a few 'accountants' in low grade jobs.

As for lawyers, they are (on average) a bunch of money grubbing, lying, self
important, devious shysters who have no more respect for equity and justice
than they have for their clients. I don't know what bearing that has on
reported salaries.

Post a reply to this message

JimT wrote:

> Firemen don't get well paid for 2 reasons:
> 
> 1) For every job advertised, there are MANY applicants - so economics keeps the
> pay down.
> 
> 2) It isn't a particularly dangerous job. Google 'Britain's most dangerous
> jobs'. Fireman isn't even on the list for the first pick. I tried to find out
> how
> many firemen there are in Britain and failed, but while there are 103 per
> 100,000 fisherman fatalities and 3.7 per 100,000 construction worker
> fatalities, firemen are well trained and equipped. Fatalities happen when they
> go into huge warehouses that collapse on them, not in house fires.
> 
> Mind you, fishermen aren't too well paid either.

I guess being in the middle of the ocean, hundred of miles from help, 
makes it fairly easy to get into trouble and die before anybody can get 
there to rescue you...

> As for doctors vs accountants and lawyers, doctors tend to like to feel
> important and will therefore over-report salaries, while accountants are well
> used to minimising tax and will tend to undereport salaries. And there are
> quite a few 'accountants' in low grade jobs.

Yeah, I guess the "accountants" that you hear about are the guys at the 
top. I'm sure top lawyers make a fair bit more than the median too...

> As for lawyers, they are (on average) a bunch of money grubbing, lying, self
> important, devious shysters who have no more respect for equity and justice
> than they have for their clients. I don't know what bearing that has on
> reported salaries.

LMAO! Nice...

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
> Yeah, I guess the "accountants" that you hear about are the guys at the 
> top.

Yes. Every 2-bit company has accountants.

> I'm sure top lawyers make a fair bit more than the median too...

Yes. A new lawyer works 80-hour weeks for five years making a pittance 
hoping to get promoted to "partner" at some point. In the US at least.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

Post a reply to this message

A doctor could be paying $50k a year in malpractice 
insurance, which means they're not all that well off,
except on paper.

Post a reply to this message