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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:40:54 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>
>> So what is it that Emacs does
>> that's so awesom? What can it do that Notepad can't?
>
> emacs is a religion. Notepad isn't.
Yes, emacs can move mountains. ;)
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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> My goal here is not really to prove that Notepad is better than Emacs -
> Notepad is obviously inferior to just about every editor known to man.
Yeah. It sucked when Notepad took the market away from EDLIN.
--
Nick Mackey saying hello.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawaz org<<<<<<
anl
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Warp wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> Notepad is obviously inferior to just about every editor known to man.
>
> You have clearly never used edlin.
Darn - beat me to it!
--
Nick Mackey saying hello.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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nemesis wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:40:54 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>>
>>> So what is it that Emacs does
>>> that's so awesom? What can it do that Notepad can't?
>>
>> emacs is a religion. Notepad isn't.
>
> Yes, emacs can move mountains. ;)
M-x translate-mountain
--
Nick Mackey saying hello.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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> So in your opinion people who have been using emacs in a unix system
> for 20 years have no right to use the same software in the exact same
> way in Windows?
A simple option to choose between Windows and traditional Unix interfaces
would suffice (the default of course being Windows so that new users don't
get scared off).
Anyway, Windows is not Unix, if you port a program from another platform to
Windows you should at least have to use the standard Windows GUI controls
and keyboard shortcuts. One thing that is good about *most* Windows apps is
that they all work the same way, Ctrl-C is copy, Ctrl-S is save, they all
use the same Windows dialog boxes, that makes it *easy* to learn and use.
Programs that deliberately don't conform to these standards are just
shooting themselves in the foot because users won't like them.
Look at how many people complain about the UI of Blender and what a steep
learning curve it has. Do you think it would be as bad if the Windows
version actually looked and behaved like a proper Windows application?
Pressing Space to get the context menu and right button to select, using
some file open/save mechanism from the DOS ages, using Ctrl-W to save, WTF
is that about? - it's a horrendous application running on Windows in terms
of the UI.
> Btw, saying "I tried emacs once and gave up" is exactly as stupid as
> saying "I tried povray once and gave up".
I think it's the expectation thing, you don't expect to be able to load up a
script-based ray tracer and just get it to work on your first try with no
documentation. A text editor however, you expect to be able to type stuff,
copy & paste, load save etc without having to read any documentation because
there are OS standardised ways for that stuff for a reason.
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>> Really, I wish MS would ban software that doesn't at least use the
>> standard font, menus, toolbars, dialogs etc.
>
> Emacs and vi were around long before Microsoft began selling DOS. Their
> standards are as valid in their context as Microsoft's in their products.
Sure, but if you write or port a program to run under windows it should
follow at least some basic style guidelines. IIRC they are on the MS
website somewhere under their "logo program". It makes life easier for
everyone using that OS, rather than ending up with a mish-mash of programs
all doing everything their own way.
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>> My God... The Windows native port is a 37 MB download! O_O
>
> They have a Windows port?
It's GNU software. They quite often have Windows ports. Some of them
don't even require an emulator.
>> Does anybody know what the hell "C-u 10 C-f" is actually supposed to
>> mean?
>
> I believe it means to do C-f many, many times. Don't know for sure as
> I'm not (yet) a real emacs user.
No no, I mean... HOW DO YOU TYPE THAT? What keys is it actually talking
about?
> As for kill and yank, do realize that Emacs is old. I'm not sure cut
> and paste was common editor parlance in those days.
Fair enough. But... pretty strange choice of terms, even if nothing
existed before.
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>> Does anybody know what the hell "C-u 10 C-f" is actually supposed to
>> mean? What the heck is a "meta key"? Why are cut and past called kill
>> and yank? The list of questions goes on and on.
>
> which does which? Kill I imagine deletes the text. Yank I guess is
> similar to a copy then delete operation.
Actually, it appears that kill = cut and yank = paste. (WTF?)
> I'm sure there's a way to remap keyboard operations.
I'm pretty sure you're right.
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>> My God... The Windows native port is a 37 MB download! O_O
>>
>> *dies*
>>
>> I thought SciTE was bad for taking almost 2 MB, but 37 MB for a mere
>> text editor?
>
> Emacs/vi +
> Unix command-line is pretty much a textual IDE, not mere editor -- the
> size is even light in the face of graphical IDEs. Plus the editor
> component is far more featureful than most IDE's editing component.
OK, fair enough.
>> Not content with merely being a text editor, it also tries to be a
>> newsreader, web browser, file manager, calendar, and even a Tetris
>> clone. Unfortunately, from the screenshots I've seen, it does none of
>> these things very well.
>
> Screenshots don't show functionality.
No, but they do show me that the UI looks utterly horrid.
> Emacs/Unix looks ugly and performs like an athlete. Notepad/Windows
> looks shiny and performs like a snail. Hey, if you get a Mac you can
> have awesome visuals + Unix featureful command-line apps. Best of 2
> worlds! :-D
Heh. So people keep telling me. Pity about the price tag...
(I just bought a shiny new Intel Core 2 Duo laptop. I did look at a
MacBook, but couldn't find anything for anywhere near the price I paid.
And all the MacBooks seem to have utterly horrid keyboards...)
>> Does anybody know what the hell "C-u 10 C-f" is actually supposed to
>> mean?
>
> RTFM?
Have you seen the size of it?
> C-u 10 (do next command 10 times)
> C-f (moves the text cursor (f)orward by 1 char)
Er, no... HOW DO YOU TYPE THAT? What buttons is it actually telling you
to press?
> Hmm, I think I've made my case for these features here before and didn't
> make your mind then, won't be trying it again... you should try to learn
> and actually practice it to see what you was losing all these years
> rather than ask for features and then just rebating and turning such
> features down on such silly arguments as beauty or other non-sense.
> Looks alone don't mean squat for powerful text editing.
A lot of people like Emacs. There must be a reason for that. I'm curios
to know what it is.
A found a blog where somebody asked this very question. A lot of the
answers were things like "it does syntax hilighting" (well, so does
everything now), "you can open a shell from the same window" (well, Kate
does that), and "it's what I've used for years" / "it works the same way
on every platform".
About the most convincing justification I could find was "it has
millions of tiny features that together add up to something special". Of
course, you'd have to use it for 20 years to find out of that's actually
true or not...
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>>> emacs is a religion. Notepad isn't.
>> Yes, emacs can move mountains. ;)
>
> M-x translate-mountain
That would be funny if you weren't joking... ;-)
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