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"clipka" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message
news:web.49a824c487ba12098d0daedf0@news.povray.org...
> Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
>> John VanSickle wrote:
>> > "Dude, I'm having sex right now! Call back some other time!"
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh4EPcOpSy8
>
> Check out this one:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1waHJhb2wxo
Nice one.
Hope no one is offended by the language, but if you've never seen Bill Hicks
(RIP) talk about marketing it is worth a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVZo1Jjfshw
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On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:16:46 -0600, Mike Raiford wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:49:58 -0500, Mike Hough wrote:
>>
>>> I have done that before but I read somewhere that some places pay
>>> their telemarketers more if they keep people on the line longer. Plus
>>> it could cost me money if it is during the day because I have limited
>>> minutes on my cell phone.
>>
>> I believe in the US at least it's not legal for telemarketers to call
>> mobile phones....
>>
>>
> Might no be legal, but that doesn't prevent them from doing it.
> Especially when their name is "Warranty Services" and their phone number
> reads 89989988999888 on the caller ID.
True enough, I get enough calls at home from people who violate the DNC
list already to know that just because it's illegal doesn't mean people
don't do it.
Caller ID spoofing is also illegal, IIRC, but that doesn't stop them -
they gotta be caught.
Jim
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On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:15:43 -0600, Mike Raiford wrote:
> clipka wrote:
>
>> Neither will they be happy about the feigning of a crime if the
>> telemarketer's phone call happens to have been recorded "for training
>> purposes"...
>
> Hmmm. Good point :)
>
> The best was one of those "Hand over all of your credit card numbers and
> we'll tell you how to save" scams. I led the guy on for almost half and
> hour spinning a BS web of financial woes and mounds of credit card debt
> that would have any high-interest lender salivating.
>
> Lightning struck very near by at just the right time.
>
> "Whooo! if I keep lying like this I might actually get struck next
> time."
>
> he was pretty unhappy with me wasting a half hour of his time.
Love it.... :-)
It's kinda a sport like those who bait the 419-scammers. The 419eater
website is a *scream*.
Jim
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On 2/27/2009 12:16 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> True enough, I get enough calls at home from people who violate the DNC
> list already to know that just because it's illegal doesn't mean people
> don't do it.
Most likely, they aren't actually violating the DNC list. They're only
required to scrub against it every 3 months; they can add a number, call
it for three months, and then check the list.
I actually sympathize with the telemarketers. It's a tough job that
everyone hates, but there are a lot of good people who really aren't
trying to rip you off. The least you could do is be courteous with them.
(Now, the ones who repeatedly call you, constantly interrupt you, and
try to steamroll you into something, I hate - they give the rest of them
a bad name, and deserve all the pranks that get played on them.)
--
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:30:16 -0800, Chambers wrote:
> Most likely, they aren't actually violating the DNC list. They're only
> required to scrub against it every 3 months; they can add a number, call
> it for three months, and then check the list.
There are many who do not remove from their list (a) after scrubbing, or
(b) at the caller's request. There are quite a few now who actively
ignore requests to call and aren't even up front about what they are
calling about.
Then there are those who attempt to circumvent it by doing a "survey" -
which is exempt from the DNC list. Thing is, they're really trying to
get in for the sale, and the survey method is their way of avoiding the
law.
> I actually sympathize with the telemarketers. It's a tough job that
> everyone hates, but there are a lot of good people who really aren't
> trying to rip you off. The least you could do is be courteous with
> them.
I generally don't answer the phone when the call is from a number I don't
recognize. I wish they'd get a clue after the 3rd or 4th call not being
answered, but they generally don't. Many places use automated dialers
and often they're dialing many numbers at a time and the only person who
gets a live person on the other end (from the calling organisation) is
the first of a dozen or so who answer the phone.
The whole idea of telemarketing is just a waste IMHO. I don't buy things
on the phone, most people I know don't buy things on the phone,
especially from cold calls. I have a need, I research a product, and I
get the one that fits my need. I generally think advertising in and of
itself is largely a waste when it's targeted at me because I don't
respond to it and generally am not influenced by it.
> (Now, the ones who repeatedly call you, constantly interrupt you, and
> try to steamroll you into something, I hate - they give the rest of them
> a bad name, and deserve all the pranks that get played on them.)
I haven't actually run across any who use the technique responsibly - I
think many people are in the same boat I am, which is why the reaction
tends to be as strong as it is.
Jim
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On 28-2-2009 6:08, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:30:16 -0800, Chambers wrote:
>> I actually sympathize with the telemarketers. It's a tough job that
>> everyone hates, but there are a lot of good people who really aren't
>> trying to rip you off. The least you could do is be courteous with
>> them.
>
> I generally don't answer the phone when the call is from a number I don't
> recognize. I wish they'd get a clue after the 3rd or 4th call not being
> answered, but they generally don't. Many places use automated dialers
> and often they're dialing many numbers at a time and the only person who
> gets a live person on the other end (from the calling organisation) is
> the first of a dozen or so who answer the phone.
>
> The whole idea of telemarketing is just a waste IMHO. I don't buy things
> on the phone, most people I know don't buy things on the phone,
> especially from cold calls. I have a need, I research a product, and I
> get the one that fits my need. I generally think advertising in and of
> itself is largely a waste when it's targeted at me because I don't
> respond to it and generally am not influenced by it.
It's real life SPAM. You may not buy anything, nor anyone you know, but
there are always some people that do. Either because they actually need
or want something, or because they were caught off guard. The math is
easy. If a telemarketeer costs 10 per hour, he/she can make 100 calls
per hour and one in a thousand suckers buy, if the product earns more
than 100 you are still making a profit. Simple rule: Never buy from
telemarketers even if it is something you need. If you do you are paying
to disturb another couple of hundred innocent people.
About sympathising with telemarketers, I may be in two minds. On the one
hand there is the real life person for who this unskilled labour is
possibly the only way to earn some money and they don't deserve the
blame for what their boss is doing. OTOH they get paid to annoy people
and they know it. It is an unethical job at best and when the methods
employed are illegal there is not much difference between this and being
paid for being the lookout during a burglary. You may not be the one who
commits the crime, but you are the one that makes it possible.
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On 2/27/2009 9:08 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> There are many who do not remove from their list (a) after scrubbing, or
> (b) at the caller's request. There are quite a few now who actively
> ignore requests to call and aren't even up front about what they are
> calling about.
Such actions are illegal; I have no sympathy for those who actively
break the law.
> The whole idea of telemarketing is just a waste IMHO. I don't buy things
> on the phone, most people I know don't buy things on the phone,
> especially from cold calls. I have a need, I research a product, and I
> get the one that fits my need. I generally think advertising in and of
> itself is largely a waste when it's targeted at me because I don't
> respond to it and generally am not influenced by it.
The thing is, telemarketing will go away when it stops being profitable.
Enough people buy things from telemarketers to continue the practice.
>> (Now, the ones who repeatedly call you, constantly interrupt you, and
>> try to steamroll you into something, I hate - they give the rest of them
>> a bad name, and deserve all the pranks that get played on them.)
>
> I haven't actually run across any who use the technique responsibly - I
> think many people are in the same boat I am, which is why the reaction
> tends to be as strong as it is.
My wife works for a company, called Vector Marketing, that sells
cutlery. They're responsible about their calling, honoring requests to
not be called and such, and are always courteous on the phone (although
<5% of their calls are cold calls).
I also worked for a company that sold windows & siding, where >95% of
the calls were cold calls, and we also were decent about things.
Those are, of course, only two companies, but still it's encouraging to
know that there are some like that.
> Jim
--
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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On 2/28/2009 1:15 AM, andrel wrote:
> If you do you are paying to disturb another couple of hundred innocent people.
Very few companies call random numbers straight out of the phone book -
it would be extremely inefficient. As with all marketing strategies,
the key is to locate those people most likely to need or want your
product or service; as a result, telemarketers aren't interested in the
phone book, but in specific calling lists (for instance, home owners
with >20% equity in their homes are a great demographic for windows and
siding).
I'm actually a big fan of targeted advertising. I'd much rather view
ads (and receive phone calls!) about products that interest me.
> for who this unskilled labour is
If you think it's unskilled, you've never tried it yourself :)
> OTOH they get paid to annoy people
Those are the ones that give the whole industry a bad name. Believe it
or not, there are professionals out there who do NOT annoy (that's bad
business, you know).
> It is an unethical job at best
Companies do the same thing to other companies all the time.
Unsolicited sales calls are a part of the business world, and quite
necessary. Imagine if you started a new business, and you were
expressly prohibited from telling people about it until they asked you.
You'd go broke within a month, and never make a profit!
Before any sale can be made, a relationship must be established between
the buyer and the seller. This can be done through a variety of methods
(print and media advertising, word of mouth, product placement, etc) and
telemarketing is just one of the tools a successful company may employ.
> and when the methods employed are illegal
The problem is NOT telemarketing (which can be, and is quite often, used
responsibly), but those who employ illegal (or even just annoying)
practices.
--
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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On 28-2-2009 11:16, Chambers wrote:
> On 2/28/2009 1:15 AM, andrel wrote:
>> If you do you are paying to disturb another couple of hundred innocent
>> people.
>
> Very few companies call random numbers straight out of the phone book -
> it would be extremely inefficient. As with all marketing strategies,
> the key is to locate those people most likely to need or want your
> product or service; as a result, telemarketers aren't interested in the
> phone book, but in specific calling lists (for instance, home owners
> with >20% equity in their homes are a great demographic for windows and
> siding).
That is totally irrelevant. I am not interested in windows, nor is
almost anyone else on that list. For me it is just another unwelcome
phone call. Sometimes it is even worse than simply unwelcome. So is it
for the others on the list. Yet if there is just one in that list that
buys, they are going to use part of the money to annoy me again.
>
> I'm actually a big fan of targeted advertising. I'd much rather view
> ads (and receive phone calls!) about products that interest me.
if that happens once a year, that would be ok. Just as that I might live
with one unsolicited penis enlargment ad by e-mail per year.
>> for who this unskilled labour is
>
> If you think it's unskilled, you've never tried it yourself :)
It is unskilled in the conventional meaning of not requiring more than
primary school. That not everyone can do it and that the best do have
more education is not so relevant. To keep in line with my main
argument: pickpocketing is also unskilled labour.
I will never try myself and would object to anyone in my close family
that would consider. It is an unethical job, at least the ones that
phone 'random' people during dinner and in the weekends 'because that is
when the people are at home'.
>> OTOH they get paid to annoy people
>
> Those are the ones that give the whole industry a bad name. Believe it
> or not, there are professionals out there who do NOT annoy (that's bad
> business, you know).
Funny, I have never had a phone call then from anyone that did not give
the industry a bad name.
>> It is an unethical job at best
>
> Companies do the same thing to other companies all the time. Unsolicited
> sales calls are a part of the business world, and quite necessary.
> Imagine if you started a new business, and you were expressly prohibited
> from telling people about it until they asked you. You'd go broke
> within a month, and never make a profit!
>
> Before any sale can be made, a relationship must be established between
> the buyer and the seller. This can be done through a variety of methods
> (print and media advertising, word of mouth, product placement, etc) and
> telemarketing is just one of the tools a successful company may employ.
>
>> and when the methods employed are illegal
>
> The problem is NOT telemarketing (which can be, and is quite often, used
> responsibly), but those who employ illegal (or even just annoying)
> practices.
For the common people the problem *is* telemarketing, as they never get
called by responsible telemaketers. So how would we know that these
exist also?
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On 28-2-2009 11:07, Chambers wrote:
> My wife works for a company, called Vector Marketing, that sells
> cutlery. They're responsible about their calling, honoring requests to
> not be called and such, and are always courteous on the phone (although
> <5% of their calls are cold calls).
>
> I also worked for a company that sold windows & siding, where >95% of
> the calls were cold calls, and we also were decent about things.
Somehow I already had the feeling that you might have personal
experience. ;)
Can you tell me how you were able to determine that a call did not
disturb *before* making the call? At what times did you call? The
problem as I see it is that it is very hard to know that you are not
calling someone who is in a hurry to get away, already annoyed because
of the other two telemarketers before you, who is not cooking, having a
good conversation with a spouse or friends and is not making love at
that moment. In all these situations someone can choose to not answer,
but you know many will and even so, as soon as the phone rings, you have
an interruption.
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