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I think people like you are voluntarily blind to spirituality and make
sure to stay this way, hence any belief in God is just non-sense from
"wacky people". I wonder what kind of fear(s) relies in this denial
behavior... comfortableness of a materialistic world? who knows, but I
think you are wasting your time analyzing religion/spiritual related
matters when you have an aperture to it of any kind, because everything
would be just non-sense anyway.
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On 13-Jan-09 18:58, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> I think people like you are voluntarily blind to spirituality
I can only speak, but I know that I have had experiences that I am sure
would have been called spiritual by others. I have had that moment, like
probably many others, when for the first time and in an just instant
totally understood how mind boggling big the universe is. My favorite
one, however, is the one I had in class the subject was general
relativity and basically our teacher let us 'discover' that light is a
property of any geometry with 3 space and a time dimension. I don't
think I can relate to you in any way how you feel when you suddenly and
completely realizes that of the famous opening of the bible*:
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of
the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
statement three is totally superfluous.
I am assuming that you don't know what I mean because most religious an
'spiritual' people tend to stare you blank in the face if you tell them
how much of a spiritual experience maths can be and give this example.
And then they don't even know that on the board were only some matrices
and a 4 dimensional generalization of the maxwell equations with those
cute square operators. My wife says she understands.
In short, even atheists can be very spiritual or religious or whatever
you want to call that. We just experience the feelings in another
environment.
Just to give another famous example of what I might mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSZNsIFID28
> and make sure to stay this way, hence any belief in God is just
> non-sense from "wacky people".
I wouldn't say wacky, 'misled' would suffice ;)
> I wonder what kind of fear(s) relies in this denial
> behavior... comfortableness of a materialistic world?
Not everybody appreciates this kind of pseudo-psychology. I know I don't.
> who knows, but I
> think you are wasting your time analyzing religion/spiritual related
> matters when you have an aperture to it of any kind, because everything
> would be just non-sense anyway.
I think you'll find that there are a lot of 'atheists' that have studied
the bible and other holy books in more detail than your average
minister. They won't consider that a waste of time themselves.
------
*) suppressing the urge to quote not the new international version but
the lolcat translation, because this is a serious matter.
1 Oh hai. In teh beginnin Ceiling Cat maded teh skiez An da Urfs, but he
did not eated dem.
2 Da Urfs no had shapez An haded dark face, An Ceiling Cat rode
invisible bike over teh waterz.
3 At start, no has lyte. An Ceiling Cat sayz, i can haz lite? An lite wuz.
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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> voluntarily blind to spirituality
I double-ice-cream-dare you to watch these without a sense of awe. (Except
for the brief excerpt of the Numa Numa guy in the middle, of course.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcBV-cXVWFw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvNhw888XmM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3fOXt4MrOM
I pity those who need a God to provide their spirituality, sense of beauty,
or their knowledge of good and evil.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
There aren't any trees on Mars.
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On 13-Jan-09 22:04, Darren New wrote:
> Saul Luizaga wrote:
>> voluntarily blind to spirituality
>
> I double-ice-cream-dare you to watch these without a sense of awe.
> (Except for the brief excerpt of the Numa Numa guy in the middle, of
> course.
WTH?? Who ordered mthat?
> )
>
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Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
> I pity those who need a God to provide their spirituality, sense of beauty,
> or their knowledge of good and evil.
You know, you are rather good at trolling. Pro level. :P
--
- Warp
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On 13-Jan-09 22:21, Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> I pity those who need a God to provide their spirituality, sense of beauty,
>> or their knowledge of good and evil.
>
> You know, you are rather good at trolling. Pro level. :P
>
I think that sentence was fully justified by the tone of the post of
Saul. Perhaps you missed that tone because you happen to agree with Saul
but not with Darren.
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andrel wrote:
> I think that sentence was fully justified by the tone of the post
It was simply a statement of fact. I honestly feel bad for people who need
some supernatural being to provide them with the sense of wonder of the
universe, or to threaten them with harm if they don't follow the moral code
they've decided they ought to follow.
It's no more a troll than Saul accusing me of being too afraid to admit he's
right and my life is wasted.
And yes, thank you, my trolling is second only to my BSing. Probably because
I actually think about the topics I tend to troll on, because I want to see
and consider the validity of the responses I tend to get. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
There aren't any trees on Mars.
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On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:58:22 -0400, Saul Luizaga <sau### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>I think people like you are voluntarily blind to spirituality and make
>sure to stay this way, hence any belief in God is just non-sense from
>"wacky people".
That's true in my case.
>I wonder what kind of fear(s) relies in this denial
>behavior... comfortableness of a materialistic world? who knows,
There are lots of dirt poor people who don't believe in a god so materialism is
not really a reason. There are lots of bad people who believe in a god but that
does not make them able to go through the eye of a needle.
>but I think you are wasting your time analyzing religion/spiritual related
>matters when you have an aperture to it of any kind, because everything
>would be just non-sense anyway.
Truer words n'er spoken.
--
Regards
Stephen
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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> I think people like you are voluntarily blind to spirituality and make
> sure to stay this way, hence any belief in God is just non-sense from
> "wacky people". I wonder what kind of fear(s) relies in this denial
> behavior... comfortableness of a materialistic world? who knows, but I
> think you are wasting your time analyzing religion/spiritual related
> matters when you have an aperture to it of any kind, because everything
> would be just non-sense anyway.
?? You do know how many fracking people that call themselves atheist
right now started out as complete and total believers right? By my
estimate its like 50:50. But seriously, heard the argument before, and
its complete idiocy, even without the fact that half the people that now
deny religion started out religious.
Oh, and, just to be clear, there are a lot of people that do believe in,
and do analyze spirituality and religions, how never the less get
sneered at by both atheists and believers alike, because they invariably
reach the conclusion that no one could possibly believe in an
interventionist god. One side sneers at them because you can't turn on
the TV without hearing someone babbling about how god directly
intervened in something, and the other side sneers at them for not
"getting really spirituality and the truth that god truly does intervene
in people's lives". So, are these "scholars" also "blind"?
As for fear.. The only thing I fear from religion is the kind of
stupidity and ignorance that can lead to people insisting that the
solution to every problem our nation faces is more churches, less
evidence based facts in schools, more historical revisionism, and less
"evil materialist insistence on treating the world like we can
understand it!". That scares the hell out of me. Your fiction that I
might burn in hell or end up in limbo, or be reincarnated as snail, or
what ever the heck you think is going to happen, holds about as much
fear for me as the possibility that Freddy Cruger is real and will visit
me in my dreams, to kill me. And, no, you are the one confusing wishful
thinking with the idea that just because you find "comfort" in an idea
it has to be "right". How often is that "ever" true in the real world?
--
void main () {
If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
if version = "Vista" {
call slow_by_half();
call DRM_everything();
}
call functional_code();
}
else
call crash_windows();
}
<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models,
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>
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andrel wrote:
> I think you'll find that there are a lot of 'atheists' that have studied
> the bible and other holy books in more detail than your average
> minister. They won't consider that a waste of time themselves.
>
Yeah. As an example, PZ Myers is one of the most unappologetic atheist
science bloggers around, and at this point he has so many copies of the
fracking Bible in his house that he has to throw some out once in a
while to keep space on his shelves for other *useful* books. Why?
Because, despite having grown up with one, and making the mistake of
actually reading the damn thing (a mistake that most preachers never do,
unless in a group, so they can convince each other it makes sense),
pretty much every evangelical that ever shows up to "refute" his science
sends him a copy to this place of work, on the insane theory that no one
else has ever "thought of" sending him a Bible to "convert" him to
religion... During 'Cracker Gate', in which PZ dared to challenge the
legitimacy of the idea that the life of a college student was worth
"less" than a Euchrist, more than a few of these people also suffered
what has become known as "Fatwa Envy", and sent him copies of the Koran,
daring him to also desecrate that. One wonders at these people's reading
comprehension, or just general blindness, given that the image that
started all of them attacking him had several pages out of Richard
Dawkin's book, an euchrist *and* several pages out of a Koran, in a
trashcan, covered in his used coffee grounds, and pieced through by a
rusty nail. No idea how many morons sent him copies, but not one of them
ever read the original article, understood what was being protested, or
had a damn clue that he had "already" desecrated a Koran as part of the
protest of place *any* supposedly "holy" object higher than human life.
And, that isn't even mentioning copies of numerous other religious works
he owns, and has read, and had his, also atheist kids, read.
Truth is, almost universally, the only atheists that have "never" read
the Bible at all, are rejected by atheist communities because a) they
make stupid arguments, b) prove not to know what they are talking about,
c) fall for other stupid BS, d) are obviously angry or confused, and
didn't reach their point of view by learning anything at all, and e)
almost always "convert back" the moment some crisis pops up in their
lives, and some religious person is nicer to them for their irrational
thinking, demands for the universe to be nice to them, and disinterest
in sound advice, than all the atheists they latched onto, thinking it
made them look cool to be one (kind of like fake Goths, or like the
"plastic hippies" that they used to talk about in the 60s-70s, who only
showed up on their days off to "pretend" to be one of the culture.) Fake
atheists, that don't get there honestly via understanding and a true
desire to learn, are not going to get much sympathy, especially after
they prove unwilling to learn or understand. We might be willing to show
them the way to find a real understanding, but when it became obvious
that all they where is someone "playing at it", you can be quite sure
our reaction to them would be the same as someone showing up to "help"
at a church fund raiser, for the sole purpose of pretending to care,
while pocketing all the money they took in for themselves.
If you don't know how other atheists got to their conclusions, you are
not going to be hand held, just pointed to sources, and one of the
"first" things we **ever** say to anyone professing to side with us, if
they seem ignorant, is, "Try reading the Bible honestly, cover to cover,
without someone 'helping' you interpret it, then read some stuff from
other religions too. That is how most of us lost all faith in it."
--
void main () {
If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
if version = "Vista" {
call slow_by_half();
call DRM_everything();
}
call functional_code();
}
else
call crash_windows();
}
<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models,
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>
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