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On 17-Jan-09 6:09, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> I think an Atheist maybe would be too rational for a situation like
> this, and try to find a reasonable solution being cold thinking
Have you ever met an atheist??
> and
> maybe endangering the child, when actually the best solution is go more
> with your feelings on that small time interval. I'm not saying Atheist
> can't love.
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On 17-Jan-09 6:58, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> Saul Luizaga wrote:
>>> Think about one of those extreme situations I described...
>> > you wouldn't hold to any peace of belief/faith
>>> you can grasp?
>>
>> By the way, this is something I've always been curious about.
>>
>> Wouldn't it be easier for God to just prevent the child from winding
>> up underneath the car than to grant the mother unusual strength to
>> pick the car up? I mean, why is it that everyone getting out of the
>> crashed plane alive is a miracle, but the plane crashing from a freak
>> series of events isn't a miracle? Why isn't the mother just as likely
>> to be pissed at God for endangering her child as she is to ask for help?
>>
> Free will.
?
> I'd like to kepp on the subject but this is just not going
> well, you make fun of me at some point
I don't think he did. Nor would I expect Darren to do something like that.
> and that is disrespectful so as I
> don't want to be disrespectful to you back I'm gonna call it quits.
> Sorry to see this ends like this when it was going so well.
>
> Best Regards.
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andrel wrote:
> Small question, possibly on behalf of my daughter (see separate
> 'international english' thread): is this a rhetorical device that does
> not carry across cultures?
It does. I understood what you meant, at least.
I think in this case it's a reaction to implying that "atheism needs just as
much faith as theism", which is a common but incorrect meme that religious
people often try to assert.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
There aren't any trees on Mars.
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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> I think an Atheist maybe would be too rational for a situation like
> this, and try to find a reasonable solution being cold thinking and
> maybe endangering the child,
Oh. So only someone who believes in God is capable of being irrational?
Wow. Just .... wow.
I can't figure out whether you're insulting yourself or atheists more. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
There aren't any trees on Mars.
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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Free will.
Just so you know, that's a very pat answer. Perhaps you should think about
this more deeply, and give a response (if only to yourself) that actually
makes a little more sense.
Would "free will" be the same answer as to why people pray to be cured of
prostate cancer but not be mad at God that they got cancer in the first
place? If so, what decision did they make that gave them cancer of their own
free will?
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
There aren't any trees on Mars.
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andrel wrote:
> I just see it as a phrase that is used in some groups that has no actual
> meaning. Though I am a bit disturbed by the ominous '...'
I dunno. I leave friends all the time with the admonition "Be well!" That
doesn't mean that I think they need reminding, or that my well wishing will
have any specific effect.
Do you also go off on the clerks that tell you "have a nice day" when you leave?
Now, if Saul said he'd pray for us to see the light that we're so sadly
missing before we wind up in Hell, it would be a bit insulting, but that's
not how I took it. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
There aren't any trees on Mars.
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John VanSickle wrote:
> And there is no observation, or combination of observations, which is
> inconsistent with the existence of God, nor can there ever be such.
First, define God.
> All proofs of atheism rest on one or more premises that are assumed to be
> true without evidence.
It's a different kind of proof. I can prove that distilled water is not a
significant cause of cancer, but that doesn't lead to absolute certainty.
Plus, most atheists don't claim there is no God, but only that there's no
reason to think there is.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
There aren't any trees on Mars.
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On 17-Jan-09 19:58, Darren New wrote:
> John VanSickle wrote:
>> And there is no observation, or combination of observations, which is
>> inconsistent with the existence of God, nor can there ever be such.
>
> First, define God.
Something outside space and time that can not interact with our universe. ;)
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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> I think an Atheist maybe would be too rational for a situation like
> this, and try to find a reasonable solution being cold thinking and
> maybe endangering the child, when actually the best solution is go more
> with your feelings on that small time interval. I'm not saying Atheist
> can't love.
Here, it certainly sounds like what you're saying is "I love my child more
than you love yours, because I'm willing to pray to my God for my child's
welfare and you're not." Have I got that straight?
If not, what am I missing?
Do you think atheists are cold-hearted? That they don't have feelings? That
it's irrational to attempt to move the car without divine intervention?
Would you consider yourself cold-thinking and rational if you got in this
situation, prayed to God, still weren't able to move the car, and you didn't
try to invoke the Force from Star Wars? Why not? You've *seen* Yoda lift an
entire X-wing fighter. (I'm completely serious with this question. Why
wouldn't you try praying to Zeus, Satan, and then using the Force?)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
There aren't any trees on Mars.
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Saul Luizaga wrote:
> You call me ignorant,
You call us fearful and cold-hearted. It isn't personal. :-)
> I put excuses to delude myself in airy tail
> because Science and specially you have an answer to everything,
No! No no no! We do *not* have an answer to everything!
That's exactly the point! *You* have the answer to everything, namely God is
the answer to everything for which you don't already have a better answer.
Most atheists are pretty happy saying "Gee, I don't know how that works."
> I see is just a scared man afraid and angry man because someone pointed
> the possibility of a spiritual side of thigs,
You're deluding yourself if you apply this to me. I'm neither afraid nor
angry, except to the point that religious people are so certain they have
the answer to everything that they screw up my life.
> all, right, there are things that don't have and probably will never
> have a rational explanation there
But we're not afraid of not having all the answers, nor are we angry about it.
> outthere and you and Darren simply make evry effort not to see them,
See, here's the thing. You have this image of what we are, what we're like,
why we are that way. No matter what we say, you think we're doing it to
defend ourselves against the reasonableness that is "Saul's God exists."
We're not making every effort not to see them. We (at least I) am talking to
you, trying to see it. You're just failing to make it clear to *me*. Just
because it's clear to you doesn't mean that I don't see it because I'm
trying to avoid seeing it. In truth, it's really not obvious.
> hahahaha and I'm deluded? oh, think againg, maybe Nature does it all
> but has this non-material side or there is actually a spiritual world
> and you are the ignorant here.
Maybe! I think that's probably closer to truth. That doesn't mean I believe
in your diety, tho.
> And on all those studies you have, as a very eloquent, logical, rational
> trolling pro, did you made the majored in manners, kindness or do you
> even have a friends and family that you actually love or you are just a
> cold, pedant, disrespectful, longly and scared guy? Oh you stated you
> are not scared... hahaha, yeah, right...
Annnnnd... That's All, Folks!
Canned theist having nothing less to say response number twenty-seven:
"I told you you should believe in my god. Since you don't, you obviously
either secretly do and refuse to admit it because you're afraid, or you're a
subhuman monster. Likely both."
Once again, we see the "you can't *really* love your friends and family,
because you don't believe in my diety" statement. Just so you know, that's
exceedingly insulting.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Why is there a chainsaw in DOOM?
There aren't any trees on Mars.
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