Jeremy M. Praay wrote:
> How can you program without pgup and pgdn being easily accessible?  

VI!

I mean, really, use the editor they created when "control" was the only 
special key on the keyboard. :)

Granted, it doesn't help for a lot of the stuff Windows has, like email 
and web and all...  That's one thing UNIX managed to get right. (Which 
has its own disadvantages as well, of course.)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Darren New escreveu:
> Jeremy M. Praay wrote:
>> How can you program without pgup and pgdn being easily accessible?  
> 
> VI!
> 
> I mean, really, use the editor they created when "control" was the only 
> special key on the keyboard. :)
> 
> Granted, it doesn't help for a lot of the stuff Windows has, like email 
> and web and all...  That's one thing UNIX managed to get right. (Which 
> has its own disadvantages as well, of course.)

Of course you know email and the web were born on Unix, right?  If they 
were born from Windows, you'd type http:\\www.povray.org ;)

VI is fine and indeed one can achieve much in it even with just 2 
fingers, but Emacs would suffer... :P

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nemesis wrote:
> Of course you know email and the web were born on Unix, right? 

Of course. And composing email on a pre-X UNIX box involved invoking the 
editor.

The kinds of "problems" I was talking about are things like Vi being 
really bad at (say) speech recognition, stylus input, multi-touch pad 
support, stuff like that.  On a traditional keyboard, it works fine.

And I still think WordStar had the best layout of control keys ever. :-)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Darren New escreveu:
> nemesis wrote:
>> Of course you know email and the web were born on Unix, right? 
> 
> Of course. And composing email on a pre-X UNIX box involved invoking the 
> editor.

So what?  You can still do it today.  I just prefer webmail, though. 
I'm using Thunderbird just for NNTP.

> The kinds of "problems" I was talking about are things like Vi being 
> really bad at (say) speech recognition

I'm pretty sure speech recognition doesn't belong to a text editor, but 
some external lib doing the conversion for it.

> stylus input, multi-touch pad 
> support, stuff like that.

You gotta be kiddin!  Stylus and multi-touch are useful for drawing or 
moving cursors around, not text editing, because it's not precise.

3y} copies 3 (large?) blocks/paragraphs in vim.  Try to do that with a 
mouse, stylus or your finger and marvel at how slow and imprecise it is 
to get it right.  Most people I know who use the mouse for text editing 
always get it wrong:  they either miss the space in the beginning and 
when pasting have to re-indent, or miss the final char or whatever.

It's slow and imprecise because it's analogical.

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nemesis wrote:
> Darren New escreveu:
>> nemesis wrote:
>>> Of course you know email and the web were born on Unix, right? 
>>
>> Of course. And composing email on a pre-X UNIX box involved invoking 
>> the editor.
> 
> So what?  You can still do it today.  I just prefer webmail, though. I'm 
> using Thunderbird just for NNTP.

I'm not sure why you seem to be arguing with me when I'm agreeing with 
you.  What is the "so what" supposed to mean?

> I'm pretty sure speech recognition doesn't belong to a text editor, but 
> some external lib doing the conversion for it.

Yeah, OK. Why don't you try to navigate in a Vi window or an emacs 
window using speech recognition? Think about it.

Plus, of course, you'd need the speech recognition to be able to 
actually insert what you're saying into the widget you're typing at. 
Considering things like thunderbird don't get this right under Windows, 
I'd be surprised if something like vi or emacs did.

>> stylus input, multi-touch pad support, stuff like that.
> 
> You gotta be kiddin!  Stylus and multi-touch are useful for drawing or 
> moving cursors around, not text editing, because it's not precise.

Good. Go use vi without a keyboard. I dare ya.

> 3y} copies 3 (large?) blocks/paragraphs in vim.  Try to do that with a 
> mouse, stylus or your finger and marvel at how slow and imprecise it is 
> to get it right.

Why do you say "You gotta be kiddin!" and then agree with me? I'm not 
following.

> It's slow and imprecise because it's analogical.

Um, yes. That's my point. Why are you disagreeing with me?

"vi is hard to use without a keyboard."
"Don't be stupid! It's hard to use without a keyboard!"
Huh?

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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>> Hell, the whole point of ray tracing is that it lets you draw endless 
>> shiny things!! o_O
> 
> Ah, so there's the attraction. Raytracing allows you to create shiny 
> things with relative ease.

Indeed yes. And with POV-Ray's Turing-complete SDL, you can even animate 
those shiny things according to Newton's laws of motion! :-D

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Does not follow.  You sounded sarcastic.

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nemesis wrote:

> Of course you know email and the web were born on Unix, right?  If they 
> were born from Windows, you'd type http:\\www.povray.org ;)

The funny thing is, in firefox at least, that works XD

-- 
~Mike

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Darren New wrote:

> 
> And I still think WordStar had the best layout of control keys ever. :-)
> 

wasn't wordstar the one that had the help section that took up half the 
screen... ;)

At least it did on the kaypro and the xt. I forget which version it was.
-- 
~Mike

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nemesis wrote:
> Does not follow.  You sounded sarcastic.

Didn't mean to, except in that last post. :-)  I think you think I'm 
biased against all things UNIX or something, so you read the sarcasm 
into it. I don't dislike UNIX. I just don't dislike Windows. ;-)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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