On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:36:52 +0000, Invisible wrote:

>>>> Nobody becomes an expert overnight.  It takes time and practice.
>>>>
>>> And in some cases, school.
>> 
>> True, very true.
> 
> In case you missed it - I already tried that. ;-)

Doesn't mean you're incapable of learning - it could well be a poor 
instructor (by which I mean "an instructor who didn't teach in a way you 
could learn")

Jim

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Gilles Tran wrote:
> Here you go: an image made using 15000 layers.

This year's winner in the "too much time on his hands" category...

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."

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Invisible wrote:
>>>> Nobody becomes an expert overnight.  It takes time and practice.
>>>>
>>> And in some cases, school.
>>
>> True, very true.
> 
> In case you missed it - I already tried that. ;-)
> 

You went to art school?

-- 
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

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>> In case you missed it - I already tried that. ;-)
>>
> 
> You went to art school?

No. I took evening classes for drawing.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Wed, 05 Mar 2008 09:06:51 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

>>> In case you missed it - I already tried that. ;-)
>>>
>>  You went to art school?
>
> No. I took evening classes for drawing.

Which you mentioned here and in your blog, except I don't recall seeing  
any conclusion?

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Phil Cook wrote:

>> No. I took evening classes for drawing.
> 
> Which you mentioned here and in your blog, except I don't recall seeing 
> any conclusion?

Eventually the course came to a close. (Shortly before Christmas actually.)

Did I meet some new people? Well, I met 4 little old ladies who weren't 
very talkative. (At least, not to me.)

Did I learn to draw? No.

Did I improve my drawing skills? Well, slightly.

Did I learn *anything* useful? Yes, probably.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:35:38 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

> Phil Cook wrote:
>
>>> No. I took evening classes for drawing.
>>  Which you mentioned here and in your blog, except I don't recall  
>> seeing any conclusion?
>
> Eventually the course came to a close. (Shortly before Christmas  
> actually.)

I did wonder, but it seemed you'd only attended about two classes.

> Did I meet some new people? Well, I met 4 little old ladies who weren't  
> very talkative. (At least, not to me.)

Will I never be rid of Chorlton? "Hello little old lady"

> Did I learn to draw? No.
>
> Did I improve my drawing skills? Well, slightly.

Which implies you could already draw and therefore could not be taught how  
to draw :-P

> Did I learn *anything* useful? Yes, probably.

Probably?

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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>> Eventually the course came to a close. (Shortly before Christmas 
>> actually.)
> 
> I did wonder, but it seemed you'd only attended about two classes.

Actually 11 classes. Most of which just involved sitting around drawing 
stuff. [Which I could have done myself.] And being told about all the 
stuff I did wrong. [Which is also pretty self-evident.]

>> Did I learn *anything* useful? Yes, probably.
> 
> Probably?

I learned the following facts:

- Drawing is FREAKING HARD! I had assumed that there's a special 
technique to it. But no, there isn't. I had assumed that drawing only 
*seems* hard because I'm doing it the wrong way. But no, actually it 
*really is* hard. And that's all there is to it.

- Getting the proportions of shapes and the angles of lines exactly 
correct is insanely important. (I was really shocked when the teacher 
got out a ruler and started *measuring* my hand-drawn image. But sure, 
the line is definitely 8 mm longer than it should be. Jesus, I need to 
be THAT ACCURATE???)

- I tend to obsess about drawing tiny details rather than looking at the 
whole image to check whether it's actually in proportion.

- You can check proportions by lining various image elements up against 
each other. (E.g., a person's nose is supposed to line up with their 
ears. If it doesn't... they look pretty retarded.)

- Empty space is really important.

That more or less summarises what I learned. I still can't draw very 
well - but I've got a little better at copying drawings...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:20:26 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

>>> Eventually the course came to a close. (Shortly before Christmas  
>>> actually.)
>>  I did wonder, but it seemed you'd only attended about two classes.
>
> Actually 11 classes. Most of which just involved sitting around drawing  
> stuff. [Which I could have done myself.] And being told about all the  
> stuff I did wrong. [Which is also pretty self-evident.]

Time well spent then :-)

>>> Did I learn *anything* useful? Yes, probably.
>>  Probably?
>
> I learned the following facts:
>
> - Drawing is FREAKING HARD! I had assumed that there's a special  
> technique to it. But no, there isn't. I had assumed that drawing only  
> *seems* hard because I'm doing it the wrong way. But no, actually it  
> *really is* hard. And that's all there is to it.

To be precise you find drawing hard, my cousin finds drawing easy.

> - Getting the proportions of shapes and the angles of lines exactly  
> correct is insanely important. (I was really shocked when the teacher  
> got out a ruler and started *measuring* my hand-drawn image. But sure,  
> the line is definitely 8 mm longer than it should be. Jesus, I need to  
> be THAT ACCURATE???)

Art teacher meet Picasso, Picasso this is art teacher. So long as you can  
tell what it is who cares?

> - I tend to obsess about drawing tiny details rather than looking at the  
> whole image to check whether it's actually in proportion.

But that's fine if you're trying to duplicate exactly what you see for  
architectural purposes, but it ain't art.

> - You can check proportions by lining various image elements up against  
> each other. (E.g., a person's nose is supposed to line up with their  
> ears. If it doesn't... they look pretty retarded.)

Okay now you're dealing with faces and yep that's hard because of how our  
brains work

> - Empty space is really important.

Meh.

> That more or less summarises what I learned. I still can't draw very  
> well - but I've got a little better at copying drawings...

Okay once again here's a quickie essentially what lies between my keyboard  
and monitor base, HB pencil, eraser, no ruler and a index finger to smudge  
stuff. It's not in proportion, but if I'd use it as a base drawing.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:47ce9e1b$1@news.povray.org...
> - Drawing is FREAKING HARD! I had assumed that there's a special
> technique to it. But no, there isn't. I had assumed that drawing only
> *seems* hard because I'm doing it the wrong way. But no, actually it
> *really is* hard. And that's all there is to it.

If you're still interested in learning, get yourself a copy of "Drawing on
the Right Side of the Brain" by Betty Edwards.

I went through it a few years back, though I never finished it. The part
that I did work through helped quite a bit with my drawing. I don't draw
much at the moment, very little time, but what I learnt from the book helps
with rough sketches that I sometimes do.

If you do get the book, do all the exercises. Reading it is only a small
part.

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