>>> Nobody becomes an expert overnight.  It takes time and practice.
>>>
>> And in some cases, school.
> 
> True, very true.

In case you missed it - I already tried that. ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

> 47cc1c7a$1@news.povray.org...
> 
>> Other than the strange personal fun of the author, I can't see any valid
>> reason to do that kind of work using that kind of technique.  Why give up
>> the flexibility of 3D CG, or the simplicity and feel of hand-painting ?
> 
> I guess it's more an historical thing. Bert Monroy is a digital art pioneer 
> and he's been famous for a couple of decades now for his photorealistic 
> work. He's probably one of the first computer artists to have a real 
> following. This kind of piece is really a showcase for his 
> Photoshop/Illustrator skills (and books, lectures, TV shows etc.).

Visiting his site, I noticed that he made some backgrounds for "shatter", which
is seen as the first comic done on a computer. It's amusing because I remember
quite well reading "shatter" in Spirou (yes!) at the time (early eighties).

The limitations of Mac Paint gave "shatter" a very specific feel, quite interesting,
graphically (and now historically).  His most recent work are rather bland
aerograph-mock stuff, in comparison.

Fabien.

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:52:47 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

> Warp wrote:
>
>>   You wouldn't believe the sheer amount of layers a graphics  
>> professional
>> uses when creating images. We are talking about hundreds.
>>   Every single minuscule thing is usually put into its own layers.
>
> Wow. Just... wow.

Most I've worked with is about 20 layers at a time, I've had files in with  
around 100.

> And to think I still work on bitmaps using only 1 layer... (But then, if  
> you take a photograph of something, it's all one layer, and there's not  
> too much you can do about that.)

As Ben said you can copy and paste items into a new layer and indeed PSP  
has a Paste as New Layer option

>>   If I'm not completely mistaken, you can group several layers in  
>> Photoshop
>> into one entity which then works as if it was a single layer. This way
>> you can eg. move a part of the image, which in itself is composed of  
>> many
>> layers, as if it was just one layer.
>
> I can easily see that if *I* ever attempted to do something like this,  
> I'd end up putting two things into the same layer and then being  
> completely stumped later on because those things need to be in seperate  
> layers.

Yeah that's easy to do, it's also fun to mark out an area on layer 1 copy  
it to layer 2 and find you haven't got everything you thought you had  
because some of the image you can see is contained on layer 0. Likewise,  
as has been mentioned, brushing something out on layer 1 and finding  
you're really on layer 0 and need to undo.

>>   A layer mask is basically an alpha channel for a layer. That is,
>> besides having a full rgba color layer, the layer can have an  
>> additional,
>> separate alpha channel (called layer mask) which is applied to the layer
>> as well.
>>   This is handy when you want to show/hide parts of a layer, without
>> actually modifying the contents of that layer. And the other way around
>> is useful too: You can edit the contents of the layer without modifying
>> the layer mask, which means that your edits will never "bleed" outside
>> boundaries.
>>    The layer mask is not a bitmask, but a full alpha mask. This means
>> that parts of the layer can partially visible, not just on/off.
>
> Right. So... there's a channel that controls how opaque a layer is, and  
> another channel that controls how much you can draw on it?

Yeah sort of in PSP I can set a graduated mask for the alpha transparency  
on a layer, but then make that entire layer 50% opaque too. If you've got  
a copy of Paint Shop Pro it's well worth spending the time to fiddle I  
still find things that I hadn't realised it did, and it's cheaper then  
Photoshop.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:

> [You might recall I gave up on 3D Studio Max - reputedly the most 
> powerful 3D software ever written in human history - because I couldn't 
> figure out how to make it draw something other than spheres of cylinders.]

If you can manage GIMP, you can manage Photoshop a bit easier, IMO. 
Especially for macro-like things, you can record actions, etc... 
Photoshop is *the* program for image manipulation, and it does it well. 
One of the things I really like is the non-destructive features, such as 
adjustment layers; Very helpful. CS3 has even more non-destructive 
editing. The software is extremely stable and mature. Gimp is mostly 
stable, but I have managed to make betas crash a few times.

Elements, on the other hand I have found to be a major pain in the arse. 
My wife has Elements to use with her digital camera, and I somewhat 
dislike the way it works. An advantage of having Elements (it comes OEM 
with some products) is that you have upgrade pricing. My father in law 
was able to get CS3 for US$300. One of the few very expensive programs 
I've found to be well worth the money spent.

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:

> Some things that shock me about this video:
> 
> - Tim manages to draw, UNdraw and then redraw lines multiple times. 
> Usually in a bitmap editor, all drawing operations are final and cannot 
> be undone like that. (That's what's so great about vector images - you 
> can edit *everything* and nothing is ever "final".)

Undo, or he occasionally flips the stylus over and uses the eraser end. 
(yes, it has an eraser..)

> - He scales objects. This generally isn't possible in bitmap editors 
> without absurd levels of highly-visible distortion. (Tim even scales 
> individual *parts* of objects - something I've never seen any bitmap 
> editor allow.)

He's probably using a high enough resolution to mitigate the effects, 
plus the scaling he's doing isn't *too* drastic.

> - Tim is able to move objects around, place one in front of another, and 
> draw stuff behind objects. It's standard in a vector editor, but I've 
> never seen it in a bitmap editor.

Layers. Even Gimp has layers.

> - How on earth does he do the text like that? When *I* want to outline 
> something, I have to sit there for hours drawing the outlines in by 
> hand. He appears to have some kind of automation that does it for him... 
> And not to mention all the squishing and bending of the text, and the 
> multiple levels of gradients and...

Photoshop has a means of adding effects to layers. Essentially, you open 
the blending options dialog, and choose the items you want (Drop shadow, 
  Outer/Inner glow, Stroke, etc ...)

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:36:52 +0000, Invisible wrote:

>>>> Nobody becomes an expert overnight.  It takes time and practice.
>>>>
>>> And in some cases, school.
>> 
>> True, very true.
> 
> In case you missed it - I already tried that. ;-)

Doesn't mean you're incapable of learning - it could well be a poor 
instructor (by which I mean "an instructor who didn't teach in a way you 
could learn")

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Gilles Tran wrote:
> Here you go: an image made using 15000 layers.

This year's winner in the "too much time on his hands" category...

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
>>>> Nobody becomes an expert overnight.  It takes time and practice.
>>>>
>>> And in some cases, school.
>>
>> True, very true.
> 
> In case you missed it - I already tried that. ;-)
> 

You went to art school?

-- 
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

Post a reply to this message

>> In case you missed it - I already tried that. ;-)
>>
> 
> You went to art school?

No. I took evening classes for drawing.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Wed, 05 Mar 2008 09:06:51 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

>>> In case you missed it - I already tried that. ;-)
>>>
>>  You went to art school?
>
> No. I took evening classes for drawing.

Which you mentioned here and in your blog, except I don't recall seeing  
any conclusion?

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message