Phil Cook wrote:
> And lo on Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:52:00 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did 
> spake, saying:
> 
>>>  Does that make any sense?
>>
>> Not really, no.
> 
> It's possible to mix two or more lists together each possessing their 
> own numbering scheme. So you could have
> 
> 1
>  1
>  2
> 2
>  3
>  4
> 
> with 1 & 2 being part of one list and 1,2,3 & 4 being a second list. I 
> can move any items from 1234 around without changing 12's numbering. So 
> if you get something like this with all the numbers at the same level 
> it's difficult to see what item belongs to what list and Outline won't 
> help you there.

Oh good.

And this is a design *feature*?

>> However, since every page is virtually identical and I created them 
>> all with a large cut and paste operation, presumably it is now 
>> impossible to unlink them and restore deterministic behaviour?
> 
> Reset to Normal Ctrl+A Ctrl+Shift+N or skip the Ctrl+A and just Normal 
> the lists.

I'll give it a go...

>> Anyway, I just finished downloading MiKTeX. I'm going to write the 
>> ****ing test plan with LaTeX. At least that knows how to number things 
>> consistently. (Not to mention I don't have to spend 20 minutes 
>> tweaking the spacing to get a reasonably printout.)
> 
> Oo doesn't the QA specifically state what package you have to use to 
> write it up in? ;-)

Actually... no.

They will, however, almost assuredly complain about it being the wrong 
typeface.

...all of which is rather moot, since I am insufficiently talented to 
convince TeX to generate a box that fills all available space on the 
page! >_<

Let's face it, trying to do nontrivial layout with LaTeX isn't much fun 
either, is it? *sigh* I'm surrounded...

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Invisible wrote:
> This probably isn't news to you, but... numbered lists seem to be 
> spectacularly broken in Word 2003.
> 
> I mean, sure, they were always a little quirky in Word 97. But now I've 
> upgraded to Word 2003, it seems just downright *broken*. I've got a 
> couple of pages, each one with a numbered list on it. And I point-blank 
> *cannot* make each such list start counting from 1.
> 
> I can make *some* of them count from 1, but then that makes the others 
> reset to start counting from where it left off. Or, sometimes, makes 
> them start counting from some seemingly arbitrary number like 138.
> 
> What in the name of God...?
> 
> Seriously, is this behaviour "normal" for Word now?


It is perfectly expected - there's rational behind how it all works.
It's easy once you figure it out.
Good luck in doing that ;-)


Tom

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And lo on Wed, 21 Nov 2007 16:55:45 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

> Phil Cook wrote:
>> And lo on Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:52:00 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull>  
>> did spake, saying:
>>
>>>>  Does that make any sense?
>>>
>>> Not really, no.
>>  It's possible to mix two or more lists together each possessing their  
>> own numbering scheme. So you could have
>>  1
>>  1
>>  2
>> 2
>>  3
>>  4
>>  with 1 & 2 being part of one list and 1,2,3 & 4 being a second list. I  
>> can move any items from 1234 around without changing 12's numbering. So  
>> if you get something like this with all the numbers at the same level  
>> it's difficult to see what item belongs to what list and Outline won't  
>> help you there.
>
> Oh good.
>
> And this is a design *feature*?

I can see why they'd need to link each item in a list together, but that  
it fails to break once moved out of the list - hmmm.

>>> However, since every page is virtually identical and I created them  
>>> all with a large cut and paste operation, presumably it is now  
>>> impossible to unlink them and restore deterministic behaviour?
>>  Reset to Normal Ctrl+A Ctrl+Shift+N or skip the Ctrl+A and just Normal  
>> the lists.
>
> I'll give it a go...

Should get rid of lists and links so you can re-number from scratch, just  
don't go moving items between lists.

>>> Anyway, I just finished downloading MiKTeX. I'm going to write the  
>>> ****ing test plan with LaTeX. At least that knows how to number things  
>>> consistently. (Not to mention I don't have to spend 20 minutes  
>>> tweaking the spacing to get a reasonably printout.)
>>  Oo doesn't the QA specifically state what package you have to use to  
>> write it up in? ;-)
>
> Actually... no.
>
> They will, however, almost assuredly complain about it being the wrong  
> typeface.

Comic Sans?

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Phil Cook wrote:
> And lo on Wed, 21 Nov 2007 16:55:45 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did 
> spake, saying:
> 
>> Oh good.
>>
>> And this is a design *feature*?
> 
> I can see why they'd need to link each item in a list together, but that 
> it fails to break once moved out of the list - hmmm.

Hmm indeed.

>>>  Reset to Normal Ctrl+A Ctrl+Shift+N or skip the Ctrl+A and just 
>>> Normal the lists.
>>
>> I'll give it a go...
> 
> Should get rid of lists and links so you can re-number from scratch, 
> just don't go moving items between lists.

I didn't in the first place - just copy & pasting lists to duplicate pages.


>> They will, however, almost assuredly complain about it being the wrong 
>> typeface.
> 
> Comic Sans?

Arial. Possibly the world's ugliest typeface...

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And lo on Wed, 21 Nov 2007 19:08:51 -0000, Tom Austin <taustin> did spake,  
saying:

> Invisible wrote:
>> This probably isn't news to you, but... numbered lists seem to be  
>> spectacularly broken in Word 2003.
>>  I mean, sure, they were always a little quirky in Word 97. But now  
>> I've upgraded to Word 2003, it seems just downright *broken*. I've got  
>> a couple of pages, each one with a numbered list on it. And I  
>> point-blank *cannot* make each such list start counting from 1.
>>  I can make *some* of them count from 1, but then that makes the others  
>> reset to start counting from where it left off. Or, sometimes, makes  
>> them start counting from some seemingly arbitrary number like 138.
>>  What in the name of God...?
>>  Seriously, is this behaviour "normal" for Word now?
>
>
> It is perfectly expected - there's rational behind how it all works.
> It's easy once you figure it out.
> Good luck in doing that ;-)

Talking to an older guy who despairs of every 'getting' computers and  
bemoaning his own stupidity I point out he's not stupid it's just that  
computers tend to use their own rules of logic that he's not familiar  
with. "In Windows to stop the computer press Start" makes sense if you  
consider each action has to be initiated and the Start button is(can be)  
the beginning of all such actions.

Of course it doesn't help when they break their own rules; consider how  
windows open in Excel2k compared to Word2k, or in Andy's case they create  
invisible rules you can't see.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Well, I spent ages editing my Normal template to give me just the 
formatting I want. But then I tried to go edit another document, and 
every time I touch anything, the formatting just goes crazy. Stuff like 
I ask for a bullet list and I get a level 3 heading. (WTF?) And all the 
margins and alignments are all over the place and... basically the more 
I touch the document, the more screwed up it gets. It just randomly 
changes formatting on me.

Damn, I am *so* glad that using Word isn't my major job function! >_<

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And lo on Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:19:09 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

> Well, I spent ages editing my Normal template to give me just the  
> formatting I want.

Which is where you went wrong, you don't fiddle with Normal you create a  
new one.

> But then I tried to go edit another document, and every time I touch  
> anything, the formatting just goes crazy. Stuff like I ask for a bullet  
> list and I get a level 3 heading. (WTF?) And all the margins and  
> alignments are all over the place and... basically the more I touch the  
> document, the more screwed up it gets. It just randomly changes  
> formatting on me.

Because most of the templates are based on Normal.

> Damn, I am *so* glad that using Word isn't my major job function! >_<

If you want to start from scratch save your normal template under a  
different name then delete it. When it starts up Word will create a new  
untouched Normal.dot template. I'm trying to remember if this will wipe  
your dictionary additions or not, as well as any additional menu items you  
might have created so be warned.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Phil Cook wrote:
> And lo on Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:19:09 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did 
> spake, saying:
> 
>> Well, I spent ages editing my Normal template to give me just the 
>> formatting I want.
> 
> Which is where you went wrong, you don't fiddle with Normal you create a 
> new one.

Hmm, I see.

So if I do that, how do I then use all my custom styles in new documents?

>> But then I tried to go edit another document, and every time I touch 
>> anything, the formatting just goes crazy. Stuff like I ask for a 
>> bullet list and I get a level 3 heading. (WTF?) And all the margins 
>> and alignments are all over the place and... basically the more I 
>> touch the document, the more screwed up it gets. It just randomly 
>> changes formatting on me.
> 
> Because most of the templates are based on Normal.

Interesting design choice. (But then, the paperclip is far more 
questionable, IMO...)

>> Damn, I am *so* glad that using Word isn't my major job function! >_<
> 
> If you want to start from scratch save your normal template under a 
> different name then delete it. When it starts up Word will create a new 
> untouched Normal.dot template.

OK. I'll do that then...

> I'm trying to remember if this will wipe 
> your dictionary additions or not, as well as any additional menu items 
> you might have created so be warned.

There are no such additions to wipe, currently.

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:50:01 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

> Phil Cook wrote:
>> And lo on Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:19:09 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull>  
>> did spake, saying:
>>
>>> Well, I spent ages editing my Normal template to give me just the  
>>> formatting I want.
>>  Which is where you went wrong, you don't fiddle with Normal you create  
>> a new one.
>
> Hmm, I see.
>
> So if I do that, how do I then use all my custom styles in new documents?

You select File|New... which asks what template you want to use, or create  
a shortcut directly to it.

>>> But then I tried to go edit another document, and every time I touch  
>>> anything, the formatting just goes crazy. Stuff like I ask for a  
>>> bullet list and I get a level 3 heading. (WTF?) And all the margins  
>>> and alignments are all over the place and... basically the more I  
>>> touch the document, the more screwed up it gets. It just randomly  
>>> changes formatting on me.
>>  Because most of the templates are based on Normal.
>
> Interesting design choice. (But then, the paperclip is far more  
> questionable, IMO...)
>
>>> Damn, I am *so* glad that using Word isn't my major job function! >_<
>>  If you want to start from scratch save your normal template under a  
>> different name then delete it. When it starts up Word will create a new  
>> untouched Normal.dot template.
>
> OK. I'll do that then...

Remember you can't rename or delete a template currently in use in Word,  
so you can just find and rename Normal.dot to Andrew.dot when Word is not  
running. Sorry I'm so used to talking to people who only know how to work  
in Word ask them to go to Explorer and they panic :-)

>> I'm trying to remember if this will wipe your dictionary additions or  
>> not, as well as any additional menu items you might have created so be  
>> warned.
>
> There are no such additions to wipe, currently.

Then no problem.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Phil Cook wrote:

>>>  If you want to start from scratch save your normal template under a 
>>> different name then delete it. When it starts up Word will create a 
>>> new untouched Normal.dot template.
>>
>> OK. I'll do that then...
> 
> Remember you can't rename or delete a template currently in use in Word, 
> so you can just find and rename Normal.dot to Andrew.dot when Word is 
> not running. Sorry I'm so used to talking to people who only know how to 
> work in Word ask them to go to Explorer and they panic :-)

I just tried this. All my custom styles vanished, but I still *cannot* 
convince Word to format this damn report correctly! >_<

(Also, somehow turning on numbered lists activates the custom list style 
that should have been deleted...)

Damnit, as if writing the actual report wasn't already vastly too complex...

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