Le 18-01-28 à 14:01, Kenneth a écrit :
>> Maybe it's worth first clearing up the term "evaluate".
> 
> Thanks for your detailed answer. I know it can't be easy to explain such an
> 'all-encompassing' question as mine-- particularly when I'm not being completely
> clear with the proper terms to use (and I'm probably further confusing the issue
> by discussing two different aspects of POV-ray as if they are one:
> 'instantiating' elements in a scene, and the operations performed during the
> parse/render stages.) Honestly, I'm still 'groping my way through a fog' to
> arrive at a proper set of intelligent questions ;-) And to fully understand some
> of the details of your reply.
> 
> My use of the term 'evaluate' is probably a bit shabby and uninformed. What I
> really mean is, 'where the hard time-consuming work is done.' For instance,
> pre-#declaring an image_map for multiple use later: 'Evaluate' would mean,
> 'during the #declare step' (and the parse stage)... then it's simply
> instantiated later, with no extra time-consuming work required during the parse
> or render stages (a gross simplification of what really happens there.) In other
> words, the greatest amount of time time is spent 'evaluating' that image_map
> only once.
> 
> I obviously need a better phrase to describe that paradigm.
> 
>>
>> Maybe what you mean is something I'd call "creating an instance" of, or
>> just "instantiating", an object: Reserving a block of memory as required
>> for a primitive of that particular type, and filling in the values
>> required later during the render stage. This may include a few
>> precomputed values, but for most primitives it is just the data
>> specified in the SDL code.
> 
> Yes, that's basically it.
> 
> 
> 

In the case of an image_map, that image can be seen as a kind of 
constant. It's a container of many values that are each constants by 
themselves.
So, while the #declare don't actually evaluate anything in this case, 
but only assign a name and some work space, it can be evaluated later.
In this case, it's more loading the image file, and usually decoding it, 
that takes time. You can save a lot of time by attributing it to some 
identifier to be used later in several places.

Same goes for a mesh or a complex blob object.

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On 28-1-2018 20:25, Stephen wrote:
> On 28/01/2018 19:01, Kenneth wrote:
>> Thanks for your detailed answer.
> 
> How nice this Newsgroup is compared to most open forums and newspapers.
> 
> {I just felt like saying.}
> 
> 

I second that. I would have left long ago otherwise.

-- 
Thomas

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I just noticed that my original post's title has been changed here (in the
newsgroups' web interface, at least). What the...???   I had to look around to
find my own post!

When I look in 'Thread Digest', it has changed to "OT: How nice..." (!!) But if
I look in 'POV-Ray Topics/General', it has its original title of "parse vs.
render stages, and best use of memory."

Hmm. Some gremlins or leprechauns are having some fun somewhere...

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On 30/01/2018 20:31, Kenneth wrote:
> I just noticed that my original post's title has been changed here (in the
> newsgroups' web interface, at least). What the...???   I had to look around to
> find my own post!
> 
> When I look in 'Thread Digest', it has changed to "OT: How nice..." (!!) But if
> I look in 'POV-Ray Topics/General', it has its original title of "parse vs.
> render stages, and best use of memory."
> 
> Hmm. Some gremlins or leprechauns are having some fun somewhere...
> 
> 
> 


Oops! sorry. 'Twas I

If you look at the thread in a newsgroup reader. It is only a branch of 
the thread that has that title. Replies to any other posts will gave 
your original one.

I just wanted to commend the manners of the newsgroup.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:

>
>
> Oops! sorry. 'Twas I
>
Ah, the leprechaun has been unmasked :-P

Strange that it shows up in such a way in the web interface; I've actually
noticed this title-switching before, over the years.

How did you do it?? My inquiring mind is curious. I won't tell anyone  ;-)

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On 30/01/2018 22:00, Kenneth wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> Oops! sorry. 'Twas I
>>
> Ah, the leprechaun has been unmasked :-P
> 

Begora and the cream o' the morning to ye. ;-)


> Strange that it shows up in such a way in the web interface; I've actually
> noticed this title-switching before, over the years.
> 
> How did you do it?? My inquiring mind is curious. I won't tell anyone  ;-)
> 
> 

I'm sure you can't do it on the web interface.
When you reply to a post using a newsgroup reader. At least in 
Thunderbird, you get a pop up window just like an email. You can change 
the subject line there.
Also when using a newsgroup reader. It can sort the threads into 
branches, following a separate conversations. Allowing you to see who 
replied to what. And some newsgroup readers allow you to ignore branches 
or whole threads.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:

>
> I'm sure you can't do it on the web interface.
> When you reply to a post using a newsgroup reader. At least in
> Thunderbird, you get a pop up window just like an email. You can change
> the subject line there.
>

That's really strange and fascinating. Looks like something the web admin should
take a look at, if a post's title can be so easily changed inadvertently (or on
purpose by a 'malicious' gremlin, egads; chaos would ensue!)

Thanks. And Top 'o the mornin' to ya, laddie. (Well, it's evening here, but what
the He..)

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On 30/01/2018 22:52, Kenneth wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> 
>>
>> I'm sure you can't do it on the web interface.
>> When you reply to a post using a newsgroup reader. At least in
>> Thunderbird, you get a pop up window just like an email. You can change
>> the subject line there.
>>
> 
> That's really strange and fascinating. Looks like something the web admin should
> take a look at, if a post's title can be so easily changed inadvertently (or on
> purpose by a 'malicious' gremlin, egads; chaos would ensue!)
> 

It is deliberate IIRC. Many moons ago when I was a callous youth(ish). 
You could only access the groups with a newsreader. After a lot of 
complaints from noobs. A website with limited access was created. As for 
the Admin, he went to the darkside (photography), years ago. I think the 
site just runs on automatic until it stalls.

BTW
Using a newsreader can give you access to more groups than you can see 
on the website. And posts appear instantly you don't have to wait. 
</sales pitch> ;-)



> Thanks. And Top 'o the mornin' to ya, laddie. (Well, it's evening here, but what
> the He..)
> 
> 


Likewise, the sun is over the horizon, somewhere on Earth.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>
> That's really strange and fascinating. Looks like something the web admin should
> take a look at, if a post's title can be so easily changed inadvertently (or on
> purpose by a 'malicious' gremlin, egads; chaos would ensue!)

No need to worry. No data was changed. The SQL query behind the thread digest
shows the title of the newest message in a thread. The thread activity digest
shows the title of the first message, and you can see that it didn't change :-)

The web frontend does actually know the thread structure and could properly
display it. However, back when Chris Cason and I developed the web interface,
HTML and CSS were not far enough along to create a good interface for it in a
finite amount of time (we had to have it work on IE 5&6!), so we stuck to a
plain view.

Thorsten

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

>
> No need to worry. No data was changed. The SQL query behind the thread digest
> shows the title of the newest message in a thread. The thread activity digest
> shows the title of the first message, and you can see that it didn't change :-)
>

Thanks. And I see that the thread activity digest does indeed show the original
title; I didn't notice that before.

I book-marked the original thread anyway, at an earlier date, so all's well. I
think Stephen pointed out that the 'new' "OT :-)" title--as seen in the main
thread digest-- will actually change back to the *original* title, if I or
someone else posts a reply to one of the 'earlier-than-OT :-)' posts(?) I
haven't tried that yet, but it sounds... fascinating ;-)

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