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From: Clodo
Subject: Omni-directional Stereo Content
Date: 28 Feb 2016 23:20:01
Message: <web.56d38071f91c97bb4e8811590@news.povray.org>
There are a lot of VR Headset now in the market.
Oculus Rift, GearVR, HTC Vive, Google cardboard etc.
Also YouTube support 360 panoramic.

I understand there are a lot of options about rendering with other raytracing
software, but i don't find any information about Povray.

The projection model it's called ODS and is full explained in this Google doc:
https://developers.google.com/cardboard/jump/rendering-ods-content.pdf

I'm trying to render an ODS, 360 3D shot with Povray.
There are a function inside the above doc that return the viewing ray for a
given pixel in raytracing,
but i don't understand how to use it in Povray.

Any advice? Thanks.


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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: Omni-directional Stereo Content
Date: 29 Feb 2016 14:26:24
Message: <56d45510$1@news.povray.org>
On 02/28/2016 06:19 PM, Clodo wrote:
> There are a lot of VR Headset now in the market.
> Oculus Rift, GearVR, HTC Vive, Google cardboard etc.
> Also YouTube support 360 panoramic.
>
> I understand there are a lot of options about rendering with other raytracing
> software, but i don't find any information about Povray.
>
> The projection model it's called ODS and is full explained in this Google doc:
> https://developers.google.com/cardboard/jump/rendering-ods-content.pdf
>
> I'm trying to render an ODS, 360 3D shot with Povray.
> There are a function inside the above doc that return the viewing ray for a
> given pixel in raytracing,
> but i don't understand how to use it in Povray.
>
> Any advice? Thanks.
>
>
Hi,

I've never been too interested in the VR/3D realm, but I gave the Google 
article a quick read and given nobody else has jumped in with 
suggestions, I'll offer up a couple potential methods.

1) In POV-Ray 3.7 a mesh camera was introduced which allows pixel by 
pixel control of the camera rays cast using POV-Ray's internal 
mesh/mesh2 objects. Triangle faces are used to set each camera ray's 
origin and direction. So, it should be that by defining the proper 
camera triangle mesh object you can render the ODS images directly in 
POV-Ray. I'm not aware of anyone having already worked out appropriate 
ODS meshes, but perhaps someone has. It might be worth a bit of 
"googling" before spending time implementing any ODS-function to 
ODS-camera-mesh code.

2) A hybrid POV-Ray/image processing solution. Using multiple renders of 
single pixel columns with spherical cameras, it should be we can walk 
these left/right in-built spherical cameras around the IPD circle in 
column-steps always rendering the camera's at-center column. All of the 
column images would then need to be assembled via some external image 
processing into the final ODS image.

Bill P.


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From: Jaime Vives Piqueres
Subject: Re: Omni-directional Stereo Content
Date: 29 Feb 2016 16:09:10
Message: <56d46d26@news.povray.org>
El 29/02/16 a las 00:19, Clodo escribió:
> There are a lot of VR Headset now in the market.
> Oculus Rift, GearVR, HTC Vive, Google cardboard etc.
> Also YouTube support 360 panoramic.
>
> I understand there are a lot of options about rendering with other raytracing
> software, but i don't find any information about Povray.
>
> The projection model it's called ODS and is full explained in this Google doc:
> https://developers.google.com/cardboard/jump/rendering-ods-content.pdf
>
> I'm trying to render an ODS, 360 3D shot with Povray.
> There are a function inside the above doc that return the viewing ray for a
> given pixel in raytracing,
> but i don't understand how to use it in Povray.

   You can't use that with POV-Ray as a user, but have to patch POV-Ray 
sources for it. BTW, seems Paul Bourke already did it (of course!), 
albeit with version 3.6:

http://paulbourke.net/stereographics/povcameras/

   Regards,

--
jaime


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From: Le Forgeron
Subject: Re: Omni-directional Stereo Content
Date: 29 Feb 2016 18:20:52
Message: <56d48c04$1@news.povray.org>
Le 29/02/2016 17:09, Jaime Vives Piqueres a écrit :
> El 29/02/16 a las 00:19, Clodo escribió:
>> There are a lot of VR Headset now in the market.
>> Oculus Rift, GearVR, HTC Vive, Google cardboard etc.
>> Also YouTube support 360 panoramic.
>>
>> I understand there are a lot of options about rendering with other
>> raytracing
>> software, but i don't find any information about Povray.
>>
>> The projection model it's called ODS and is full explained in this
>> Google doc:
>> https://developers.google.com/cardboard/jump/rendering-ods-content.pdf
>>
>> I'm trying to render an ODS, 360 3D shot with Povray.
>> There are a function inside the above doc that return the viewing ray
>> for a
>> given pixel in raytracing,
>> but i don't understand how to use it in Povray.
> 
>   You can't use that with POV-Ray as a user, but have to patch POV-Ray
> sources for it. BTW, seems Paul Bourke already did it (of course!),
> albeit with version 3.6:
> 
> http://paulbourke.net/stereographics/povcameras/
> 

Oh, nice to see I'm not alone working on fancy camera.

And the doc is pretty nice with the approach of povray : from the
picture's pixel to the starting point and direction of the ray, exactly
what is needed by the code of any camera.

Might end up as a new camera soon in my patched povray :-)


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From: Chris Cason
Subject: Re: Omni-directional Stereo Content
Date: 29 Feb 2016 18:32:16
Message: <56d48eb0$1@news.povray.org>
On 1/03/2016 03:09, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>    You can't use that with POV-Ray as a user, but have to patch POV-Ray 
> sources for it.

As Bill mentioned, unless I'm missing something it ought to be
possible with the mesh camera, though it would need an appropriate
mesh. Perhaps a macro?

-- Chris


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From: Jaime Vives Piqueres
Subject: Re: Omni-directional Stereo Content
Date: 29 Feb 2016 18:36:58
Message: <56d48fca$1@news.povray.org>
El 29/02/16 a las 19:31, Chris Cason escribió:
> On 1/03/2016 03:09, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>> You can't use that with POV-Ray as a user, but have to patch
>> POV-Ray sources for it.
>
> As Bill mentioned, unless I'm missing something it ought to be
> possible with the mesh camera, though it would need an appropriate
> mesh. Perhaps a macro?
>

   Yes, it should be possible using meshcam, but I still have not figured
out what shape would make the trick...

--
jaime


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From: Jaime Vives Piqueres
Subject: Re: Omni-directional Stereo Content
Date: 2 Mar 2016 08:37:51
Message: <56d6a65f@news.povray.org>
El 29/02/16 a las 19:31, Chris Cason escribió:
> On 1/03/2016 03:09, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>> You can't use that with POV-Ray as a user, but have to patch
>> POV-Ray sources for it.
>
> As Bill mentioned, unless I'm missing something it ought to be
> possible with the mesh camera, though it would need an appropriate
> mesh. Perhaps a macro?
>

   I think I've figured it out... it would consist on a spherical mesh of
triangles, where each face would be rotated so that the normal will
point on the direction of the tangent. That would lead to a bunch of
disconnected triangles, which could be used with type 3 and smooth. Now
I have to figure out how to construct such a mesh... maybe using wings3d
would be better than trying to figure out the maths to do it with a macro.

--
jaime


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From: Clodo
Subject: Re: Omni-directional Stereo Content
Date: 2 Mar 2016 12:45:00
Message: <web.56d6de16976329954e8811590@news.povray.org>
Thanks for the interest about the subject.

Unfortunately i can't help about patching Povray or studying how obtain it with
mesh, it's out of my knowledge.

From what i understand, this kind of projection it's a de-facto standard,
for that reason i hope that Povray can support it 'by core', with some 'camera'
option, without patching or complex macro for users.

All VR player for VR headset (for example
http://riftinfo.com/list-of-oculus-rift-video-players-available) support ODS
format and PhotoSphere format, with or without stereo 3D (no stereo, stereo in
up/down, stereo in
side-by-side).

PhotoSphere format, like this:
https://plus.google.com/photos/105046045700292924505/albums/5805569422944253569/5805569421458305522?pid=580556942145830
5522&oid=105046045700292924505

Google docs: https://developers.google.com/streetview/spherical-metadata

From what i understand, it's the same identical equirectangular projection
without the Stereo.

If anyone of you can produce a simple Povray rendering (for example a simple
checked plane), i can test it by altering jpeg meta-data and testing it also in
VR headsets (i own Oculus DK2 and soon HTC Vive and Oculus CV1) to report
feedback.

Another stuff that can be interesting: modern VR headset need to works with 2K
display at 90fps.
It's currently difficult to create this level of ODS with the current
photographics tecnology, generally limited to 30fps that cause health ill in VR.
Can be very interesting, and maybe popular for Povray, to render some nice shot
or video with Povray and share it. There are lack of this kind of content out
there.
This is what i'm interested to do, render some of my POV-ray project in these
extreme resolution to share it to VR headset owner.


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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: Omni-directional Stereo Content
Date: 2 Mar 2016 13:57:13
Message: <56d6f139$1@news.povray.org>
On 03/02/2016 03:37 AM, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>
>    I think I've figured it out... it would consist on a spherical mesh of
> triangles, where each face would be rotated so that the normal will
> point on the direction of the tangent. That would lead to a bunch of
> disconnected triangles, which could be used with type 3 and smooth. Now
> I have to figure out how to construct such a mesh... maybe using wings3d
> would be better than trying to figure out the maths to do it with a macro.
>
> --
> jaime
>
Hi Jamie,

Entirely possible I've not myself yet understood what is needed, but I 
think the mesh will be more of a circle of circles of triangles where 
the latter circles are each split between the left and right "eye-rays" 
assigned to the top and bottom portions of the final image - in opposite 
horizontal directions.

Meaning, the final arrangement of all triangles would - if the circles 
of triangles had some >0 diameter(1) - look more like a cylinder from afar.

Guess I find myself thinking about this, if I can find a round tuit, 
maybe I too will try to come up with an actual mesh.

Bill P.

(1) - Given how loose the ODS approximation looks to be and that the eye 
has some diameter, perhaps this is actually OK?


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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: Omni-directional Stereo Content
Date: 2 Mar 2016 14:58:19
Message: <56d6ff8b$1@news.povray.org>
On 03/02/2016 07:42 AM, Clodo wrote:
> Thanks for the interest about the subject.
>
> Unfortunately i can't help about patching Povray or studying how obtain it with
> mesh, it's out of my knowledge.
>
>  From what i understand, this kind of projection it's a de-facto standard,
> for that reason i hope that Povray can support it 'by core', with some 'camera'
> option, without patching or complex macro for users.
>
> All VR player for VR headset (for example
> http://riftinfo.com/list-of-oculus-rift-video-players-available) support ODS
> format and PhotoSphere format, with or without stereo 3D (no stereo, stereo in
> up/down, stereo in
> side-by-side).
>
> PhotoSphere format, like this:
>
https://plus.google.com/photos/105046045700292924505/albums/5805569422944253569/5805569421458305522?pid=580556942145830
> 5522&oid=105046045700292924505
>
> Google docs: https://developers.google.com/streetview/spherical-metadata
>
>  From what i understand, it's the same identical equirectangular projection
> without the Stereo.
>
> If anyone of you can produce a simple Povray rendering (for example a simple
> checked plane), i can test it by altering jpeg meta-data and testing it also in
> VR headsets (i own Oculus DK2 and soon HTC Vive and Oculus CV1) to report
> feedback.
>
> Another stuff that can be interesting: modern VR headset need to works with 2K
> display at 90fps.
> It's currently difficult to create this level of ODS with the current
> photographics tecnology, generally limited to 30fps that cause health ill in VR.
> Can be very interesting, and maybe popular for Povray, to render some nice shot
> or video with Povray and share it. There are lack of this kind of content out
> there.
> This is what i'm interested to do, render some of my POV-ray project in these
> extreme resolution to share it to VR headset owner.
>
To state clearly what you probably know - for non-stereo images - 
POV-Ray has the spherical built in camera which others have used for 
streetview-ish like VR environments for 15+ years (POV-Ray 3.5?). Early 
stuff was aimed at QuickTime VR - if I remember.

See the spherical.pov scene shipped with povray.

Bill P.


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