"How Camp" <hac### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I wonder if such users 'outgrow' POV-Ray as an artistic tool, or whether they're
> mostly casualties of 'lack of time' syndrome (as I perpetually seem to be).

I enjoy doing character based animation, but I'm positively awful at organic
modeling, so I do a lot now with software where I can get and use pre-made
character content more easily (mostly I use Carrara with DAZ content). However,
POV is still a very important part of my arsenal. There are textures that I can
do in POV that I can't easily make elsewhere, and I make a lot of them in POV
to map onto meshes in other programs. As a long time programmer, I find the SDL
a much more intuitive way to work on a lot of things, especially calculating
motion paths, or doing physics based animation.

I kind of "think" in POV... I've been using it since it was in beta (version
0.98, IIRC). Carrara has an "isometric" camera, but until my brain internally
translates that to "orthographic" I can't picture what it does.

A lot of newer programs I've tried tend to make animations a little faster than
POV; I think that's mostly an issue with parsing the frames multiple times
(when I animate, I've got the clock variable stowed everywhere, it seems like).
For stills, I like using ambient occlusion and indirect lighting, and I can't
get the same results with POV (althought that may be me more than the
software...)

Post a reply to this message

"Captain Jack" <Cap### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> "How Camp" <hac### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> I kind of "think" in POV..

This is THE main reason that I keep coming back to POV-Ray.  I can "doodle" in
the gui "push-me-pull-you" modelers and attempt various treatments of mesh
objects whose vertices have been generated by digitizing sensor data from the
"real" world, but POV is the only software that I'm familiar with wherein the
process of producing an image is so tightly interwoven with the process of
conceiving it. It is the only software I can "think in" to borrow Captain
Jack's apt phrase.

My long absences are most definitely RL instigated.  I'm seriously considering
not backing up the RL any more so that I'll have a good excuse for replacing it
the next time it crashes.  (I'm pretty sure that it's a hardware issue anyway.)

Best Regards,
Mike C.

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot wrote:

> I am relieved to read how Jim has nicely wrapped up his personal experience 
> regarding POV for me too. I thought I was the only one :-)

... except he may have thought of you as being on
the other side of the gap ;)

Post a reply to this message

news:web.49f9937ffb2e5f1ac59235590@news.povray.org...
> I've been monitoring the POV-Ray newsgroups for nearly a decade, and I've 
> seen a
> number of prolific users come and go.  I'm curious what software POV-Ray 
> users
> tend to migrate toward after they 'move on'.  Do most convert to high-end
> render packages (I think H.E. Day did this), or is there another 
> open-source
> package that eventually steals away the POV community?
>
> I wonder if such users 'outgrow' POV-Ray as an artistic tool, or whether 
> they're
> mostly casualties of 'lack of time' syndrome (as I perpetually seem to 
> be).

Jim gave an accurate account of why I "left" POV-Ray so there's little to
add. Modelling complex objects in SDL is extremely challenging so at one
point I decided to move to a full 3D package where I could do more "drawing"
than coding (and my coding skills are just not good enough to really push
the envelope anyway, so I could feel the "gap" too). I first learned Blender
but even though I eventually managed to model and render things I didn't
like the experience, so I moved to a commercial package (Cinema 4D). I added

moved to Softimage + MentalRay.
Note that I'm still using POV-Ray once a week or so thanks to the people who
keep sending me questions as a TAG member!

G.

Post a reply to this message

On and off over the last couple of years, I've also thought of migrating to a
commercial, GUI-based program, one 'easier to use' (and without the little bugs
that can sometimes stop the creative process cold.) Lightwave and Cinema 4D have
always aroused my interest (although they probably have bugs of their own!) Yet,
like others here, I now 'think' in POV-Ray terms.  And the program is getting
easier to use--and more understandable--the more I work with it. In short, it
has become a familiar friend. And being able to code a scene from scratch is
just plain fascinating; I doubt that I would get the same mental satisfaction
from a GUI program. It's like an all-around, jack-of-all-trades tool--or a box
of shiny gadgets that can be assembled in just about any way imaginable--and I
feel I haven't even scratched the surface of what it can do.  And IMO, POV-Ray
can create imagery on a par with the best software out there. Perhaps a bit
more slowly--but I'm in no race to the finish line.

Oh, and it was free--a BIG point in its favor. (I just couldn't see forking over
$thousands for a commercial program that I would only be using on a hobbyist
basis. Not to put POV-Ray into a 'hobbyist' category--it's *certainly* capable
of producing beautiful, professional results.) Funny thing is, I can now afford
to buy a commercial package--but I really don't want to! The only limitations of
POV-Ray are my *own* limitations. I learn something new every time I use it.

Personally, I see POV-Ray as the "thinking man's" CGI program. (Or woman's!)

KW

Post a reply to this message

"Christian Froeschlin" <chr### [at] chrfrde> schreef in bericht 
news:4a00b5a7$1@news.povray.org...
>
> ... except he may have thought of you as being on
> the other side of the gap ;)

Really? In that case there are more gaps than one I am afraid.... :-)

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Thomas de Groot wrote:

> 
> 
> Really? In that case there are more gaps than one I am afraid.... :-)
> 

Not a bad thing to remember.  You are very much in the van here when it 
comes to utilizing Poser.

Post a reply to this message

Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
> > Really? In that case there are more gaps than one I am afraid.... :-)
>
> Not a bad thing to remember.  You are very much in the van here when it
> comes to utilizing Poser.

I have the impression that some of the gaps observed are - at least in part -
due to people specializing.

We have some people here doing incredible stuff with SDL regarding macro
frameworks.

Others create mind-boggling landscapes.

Yet others do fascinating experiments with abstract stuff and mathematical
formulae (like that freakin' cellular-automaton shell).

Some are experts on global illumination techniques.

Others know everything there is to know about isosurfaces.

Tom places at least one poser figure into every shot he does.

Yet others seem to be experts at modelling and rendering Lego scenes ;)

And so on.

So we not only have gaps between "beginners" and "semi-professionals", but also
between various specialists. And an "all-rounder" might find that wherever he
looks, there's always some specialist who can do better.

For instance, accordig to the last TC-IRTC round I must be doing *something*
right, and playing in one league with Robert McGregor, yet it still feels like
he is quite a deal ahead of me - but maybe that's just because I only see how
good he is at doing water, and fail to notice that my sand isn't bad either ;)

Post a reply to this message

"clipka" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht 
news:web.4a02e8c44eec845cf708085d0@news.povray.org...
> I have the impression that some of the gaps observed are - at least in 
> part -
> due to people specializing.
>

Yes, I think that is the correct answer. Unfortunately, it is also like the 
expansion of the universe (or evolution): cross-links are increasingly 
difficult to make with time...

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

I'll step out of the murky depths at add a cent or two.
I was really active here ten to fifteen years ago. RL got in the way, and worse,
I lost a couple of gigs of POV-related code in an archiving accident. I was so
wounded by the experience I couldn't get back into POV-Ray.

I still dabble but don't do anything of real import. Losing POV-Ray meant losing
art for a while.

Josh English

Post a reply to this message