Paul Bourke <pau### [at] uwaeduau> wrote:
> Well I wouldn't be so sure, looking at some of the entries so far I'm
> starting to wonder if the size should not have been reduced to increase the
> challenge.

  Nah. I think 256 bytes is a rather good limit, where making a good image
is challenging but possible. Much lower than that, and I believe the
quality of the images would probably decrease radically.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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How morally acceptable is it to post public WIPs of scc4 entries?

  First of all, publishing public WIPs breaks the rule that entries should
be anonymous at the judging stage.

  However, that's not the only problem I see with that:

  At least one person is doing this, and he is *getting help* from people
to reduce his scene, as well as improvement ideas.
  I don't know about you, but to me this feels a bit like cheating. Isn't
this an individual competition, where people submit their own work?

  Another thing I find a bit questionable is that he is getting feedback
in advance. Unlike those (like me) who just make a scene and submit and
wait for the contest results to be published, he is getting opinions about
the quality of his work in advance and thus *might* have an upper edge on
further developement.
  Of course nothing would stop me from posting public WIPs too, but I still
feel like it would be kind of cheating.

  Besides, how will it affect judging when people have seen a scene in
advance, before any of the other scenes?
  Sure, it's quite unclear whether this will affect positively or
negatively the votes, but I'm sure that at least in some cases it
*may* have some effect, and I think this is questionable. It's
questionable because, at least in some cases, not all entries may
be judged equally: Some entries have been published before the
judging and thus some people may have a prejudiced (in a positive or
negative way) opinion about that entry.

  Should there be a rule that entries must be previously unpublished?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
>   I don't know about you, but to me this feels a bit like cheating. Isn't
> this an individual competition, where people submit their own work?

For what it's worth, it would bother me only if there was an actual 
prize involved beyond recognition. Otherwise, it would seem like a 
good-natured competition to promote POV and POVing in general, yes?

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> For what it's worth, it would bother me only if there was an actual 
> prize involved beyond recognition. Otherwise, it would seem like a 
> good-natured competition to promote POV and POVing in general, yes?

  Bending the rules (written or unwritten) doesn't still feel right.
It feels unfair.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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I apologise for causing such controversy. I usually post my IRTC WIPs for 
suggestions just to guage opinion on what people think of the work and I 
have previously posted WIPs for earlier rounds of the SCC, it didn't occur 
to me that this would be any different. I thought this was a perfect 
opportunity to invite discussion of some syntactical trickery in POV, though 
I grant you it does contravene the anonymity rule.

Why is it anonymous anyway? I doubt if anyone has a significant personal 
bias.

Anyway, sorry if I've bent the rules, it wasn't my intention and I don't 
believe it will gain me any advantage. I mostly just wanted to show off my 
work :)
-- 
Tek
http://evilsuperbrain.com

"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message 
news:4525c9d5@news.povray.org...
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> For what it's worth, it would bother me only if there was an actual
>> prize involved beyond recognition. Otherwise, it would seem like a
>> good-natured competition to promote POV and POVing in general, yes?
>
>  Bending the rules (written or unwritten) doesn't still feel right.
> It feels unfair.
>
> -- 
>                                                          - Warp

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Tek <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom> wrote:
> Why is it anonymous anyway? I doubt if anyone has a significant personal 
> bias.

  If Gilles or Jaime participated in the competition, I'm certain that
at least some voters could have at least a bit of bias towards their
entries if they were not anonymous.

  I wasn't actually trying to say that posting WIPs should be banned.
I just wanted to discuss about this. Is this a compo where completely
original personal work is submitted, or is it ok to get help from the
public? Is it fair that some people get optimization tips from people
while others just create their work entirely by themselves? Is it fair
that some people show their work in advance before the judging even
begins, while others don't?

  As for the anonymity breach, naturally nothing would stop eg. me from
posting here, before judging begins, something like "hey, I was the one
who made the image such and such, vote for me". However, I don't think
too many people would appreciate that.

  But of course if the majority of participants think that it's completely
ok to post WIPs, then I suppose I'll have to submit to that.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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"Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom> wrote:
> I apologise for causing such controversy. I usually post my IRTC WIPs for
> suggestions just to guage opinion on what people think of the work and I
> have previously posted WIPs for earlier rounds of the SCC, it didn't occur
> to me that this would be any different. I thought this was a perfect
> opportunity to invite discussion of some syntactical trickery in POV, though
> I grant you it does contravene the anonymity rule.
>
> Why is it anonymous anyway? I doubt if anyone has a significant personal
> bias.
>
> Anyway, sorry if I've bent the rules, it wasn't my intention and I don't
> believe it will gain me any advantage. I mostly just wanted to show off my
> work :)
> --
> Tek
> http://evilsuperbrain.com
>



But I think that there is a difference showing your IRTC work and asking
for artistic advice and asking for technical advice on a SCC. The later
work then becomes a collaboration. I think that you have inadvertently shot
yourself in the foot.


Furthermore I believe you when you said you were just showing off your work
but you should have kept the code to yourself until after the contest was
over.

improve with exposure, some lose but mostly (IMO) you gain.

pas

Stephen

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that sure that a 256 to 512 bytes competition will be a good challenge and
well balanced challenge (i mean a 257 byte pictures will get a max of x2
advantages under 512 byte) the only the good quality of picture will be
relevant ..
but the short code contest is mainly based on the use of restrained objects
...



news:web.45252ac9e7874c885a114a40@news.povray.org...
> > Even for those of us who learned to program on the ancient Commodore PET
(8k
> > RAM max) 256 bytes is a tad claustrophobic.  Sound like fun. Thanks.
>
> Well I wouldn't be so sure, looking at some of the entries so far I'm
> starting to wonder if the size should not have been reduced to increase
the
> challenge.
>
> -------------------------------------
> P a u l   B o u r k e
> http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/
>
>
>
>

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Leroy wrote:
> Christoph Hormann wrote:
>> The fact that the code will be visible makes this easier to deal with 
>> but i still fear that during voting there could be extensive 
>> discussion about whether some entries are based on older ones.
> 
>  I'm thinking of entering for the first time.
> How can I make sure I don't mistakingly do what you feared?

Simple ... write your own code rather than modifying someone else's!

I think unique and innovative code should be rewarded through the voting 
system without having to worry about whether bits have been borrowed...

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Paul Bourke wrote:
>>> Probably a stupid question, but.... we can submit more than one entry,  right?
>>   I hope so.
> 
> I have no problem with multiple entries as long as they are each distinctly
> different.
> On the other hand lets not go crazy .... lets say a maximum of 4 per person?
> Everyone happy with that?
> 

Can I ask how "disctinctly different" is defined ...?

For instance I've made two scenes which are both based on the same 
(well, slightly modified) function. One uses it for a density map 
whereas the other uses it for an isosurface ... however both are very 
spherical shapes, but still look very different. I'm not sure whether I 
even want to submit both, but for clarity would the rule be here?

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