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From: Rene Bui
Subject: Re: Doesn't this image strangely looks like another?
Date: 20 Jan 2005 04:15:00
Message: <web.41ef75cbd4b68ebb794b81e90@news.povray.org>
>   I'm going to start with a polite/friendly email telling him that the
>attribution to Stephane Marty in Artvif is wrong, to see how he reacts.
>I will keep you all updated... :)
>
>--
>Jaime

Ooh Jaime, you're too kind.
If it was happened to me... GGGRRRR !


Rene
(the old newbie)


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Doesn't this image strangely looks like another?
Date: 20 Jan 2005 08:45:57
Message: <41efb615$1@news.povray.org>
I suppose this is an excellent reason to clearly put a copyright on images,
wouldn't you think so?
Not sure if that would really help, though..... :-(

Thomas


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From: Jaime Vives Piqueres
Subject: Re: Doesn't this image strangely looks like another?
Date: 20 Jan 2005 08:49:57
Message: <41efb705@news.povray.org>
Rene Bui wrote:
> Ooh Jaime, you're too kind.

   No, I'm too lazy, do you remember? :)

--
Jaime


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From: Jaime Vives Piqueres
Subject: Re: Doesn't this image strangely looks like another?
Date: 20 Jan 2005 09:04:20
Message: <41efba64@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot wrote:
> I suppose this is an excellent reason to clearly put a copyright on images,
> wouldn't you think so?
> Not sure if that would really help, though..... :-(

   Only if you cover almost the entire image with your copyright... not 
really convenient nor fair for the visitors of my site.

--
Jaime


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From: Severi Salminen
Subject: Re: Doesn't this image strangely looks like another?
Date: 20 Jan 2005 09:25:54
Message: <41efbf72$1@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot wrote:
> I suppose this is an excellent reason to clearly put a copyright on images,
> wouldn't you think so?
> Not sure if that would really help, though..... :-(

I think the usage of "Copyright" texts just fools many people to think 
that it is _needed_ for an artwork to be copyrighted. That is not the 
case in most countries - AFAIK. And then they think that the absence of 
the text means the work is public domain or whatever,

And as Jaime pointed out, in order to work the text should be very big 
and as distracting as possible.

S.S.


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From: Renderdog
Subject: Re: Doesn't this image strangely looks like another?
Date: 20 Jan 2005 10:05:01
Message: <web.41efc770d4b68ebb3e51f4130@news.povray.org>
Severi Salminen <sev### [at] NOT_THISsibafi> wrote:
> I think the usage of "Copyright" texts just fools many people to think
> that it is _needed_ for an artwork to be copyrighted. That is not the
> case in most countries - AFAIK. And then they think that the absence of
> the text means the work is public domain or whatever,
>
> And as Jaime pointed out, in order to work the text should be very big
> and as distracting as possible.

And I find even the smallest copyright notice distracts and
detracts from an image. Infringements seem rare, damage
minimal and, as this thread shows, eventually noticed.


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From: Shurakai
Subject: Re: Doesn't this image strangely looks like another?
Date: 20 Jan 2005 10:15:00
Message: <web.41efca38d4b68ebb4ccd982c0@news.povray.org>
What about something like a watermark, which isn's visible but can be read
out by a graphic software. Does something like that exist ?

Shu


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From: Jaime Vives Piqueres
Subject: Re: Doesn't this image strangely looks like another?
Date: 20 Jan 2005 10:44:18
Message: <41efd1d2$1@news.povray.org>
More stolen images:

http://artvifcrea.site.voila.fr/Marty.html

I think the first to the left was from Denis(?) Olivier? This is getting
serious...

 From what I can see in that total mess of a site, Artvif has a section
where "artists" can submit works, so perhaps the thief was not Artvif
itself, but one "member" called Stephane Marty a.k.a MC2.

--
Jaime


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From: Gilles Tran
Subject: Re: Doesn't this image strangely looks like another?
Date: 20 Jan 2005 12:50:16
Message: <41efef58@news.povray.org>

de news:41efd1d2$1@news.povray.org...

> http://artvifcrea.site.voila.fr/Marty.html
>
> I think the first to the left was from Denis(?) Olivier? This is getting
> serious...

The plot thickens... First, at least 2 of the "architecture" images on this
page http://www.ifrance.com/artvif/GalMarty.html are from Denis Olivier's
page here : http://www.povlab.org/synthese/archi.php

at one time (he helped to develop Luxart).


Marty" but perhaps it's just a coincidence.

>From what I can see in that total mess of a site, Artvif has a section
>where "artists" can submit works, so perhaps the thief was not Artvif
>itself, but one "member" called Stephane Marty a.k.a MC2.

The oldest Artvif page I could find is this one
http://takelaka.dts.mg/artvif/
and it's talking about Madagascar. It seems that the Artvif person (who
could be Harvel Ireney as you said) later took his activities to France and
"recruited" images and texts to add to his website(s). Some of the artists

Marty" or "Pierre Carril" seem to be names borrowed from actual people
(Pierre Carril is an illustrator with ESA) and those don't have a contact
address, something that is really strange, even for scammers.

I'm starting to think that "Artvif" is just making up artist names just to
have content on his pages, so that he can post these work on community sites
to get traffic. Sometimes he takes works from actual artists, and sometimes
he just "invents" imaginary ones, taking pictures from the web to create a
portfolio and using the names of real people. Now guess what? One of the
actual artists (Pierre Angeli) who is featured on Artvif has also a page on
Denis Olivier's webpage with the same images
http://preface.povlab.org/member_gallery.php?mid=22. It really seems a bad
case of someone browsing through a website and thinking "wow this is nice so
I'll put it on my site too".

There are really odd things on the internet. I was puzzled recently by a
ring of art websites (all built on the same template) from Russia and
Ukraine all featuring the same artworks (for sale) and the same services
though I really had some doubts that it was possible to buy anything there.
Still, they were expanding this "business" to other countries. I was
contacted by the webmaster of one of these sites to upload images there and
the guy, who was based in the UK but barely spoke English, was completely
unable to tell me what the point of his (largely broken) site was.

G.

-- 

**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters


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From: Gilles Tran
Subject: Re: Doesn't this image strangely looks like another?
Date: 20 Jan 2005 13:23:53
Message: <41eff739$1@news.povray.org>

news:41efb615$1@news.povray.org...
> I suppose this is an excellent reason to clearly put a copyright on
images,
> wouldn't you think so?
> Not sure if that would really help, though..... :-(

In the incident related here
http://news.povray.org/povray.general/thread/%3C4048fb4a%40news.povray.org%3E
the "thief" erased the copyrights, or pasted his own name over the original
ones when he couldn't do otherwise. So, no, putting a copyright doesn't
technically protect the image. For this you need giant, defacing copyright
notices like the ones Zazzle puts on the large size pics.

However, the presence of the copyright forced our thief to deface the images
to assert his "ownership", at least by removing the names of the original
authors. This was a clear proof of bad intent since he couldn't claim it to
be a mistake. Because of this, we had no trouble convincing his school's
administrators that he was guilty of something more serious than uploading
copyrighted material and being forgetful about attribution.

So my opinion about copyright notices (or more precisely about visible
signatures) is that they at least can act as a deterrent for small-time
thieves, and, when they don't, they can make the case clearer, not legally
speaking, but for third parties like website admins, school admins etc.

G.

-- 

**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters


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