In article <408d49c3@news.povray.org>, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:

> "Felbrigg" <som### [at] microsoftcom> wrote in message
> news:408d34dd@news.povray.org...
> > He joined the club...
> 
>     ...some time ago now. He came here around two/three years ago and
> he posted what I thought were *really* good images AFAICR. I can only
> say that between then and recently, he changed attitude.

I think you are confusing him with someone else. When he first came 
here, he started posting image after image, most of which didn't look 
like he put any great effort into. Not simply inexperience with the 
software, just plain shoddy work. That's not a problem with the server 
admins, but he started posting dozens of images at a time, and chewing 
people out for daring to comment on them. According to him, he was using 
the server for *storage*, not as a place to post things for discussion. 
When people objected, he refused to stop, on the grounds that the 
povray.org server was a public place and he could do what he wanted on 
it. He has started flame wars almost every time he posted. He was 
eventually banned because of a single incident, but he had a long 
history of inappropriate and antisocial behavior.

This isn't censorship, it's kicking out a rude and disruptive guest.

-- 
Christopher James Huff <cja### [at] earthlinknet>
http://home.earthlink.net/~cjameshuff/
POV-Ray TAG: <chr### [at] tagpovrayorg>
http://tag.povray.org/

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Ken wrote:
> 
> "John VanSickle" <evi### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:408C8EF8.D9D58DD2@hotmail.com...
> 
> > Those whose ISP includes the Usenet group alt.binaries.3d.poser, and have the
> > time, may want to go over there and see what's being said about this.
> 
> I didn't see any mention of it in that group. Is there a particular thread I missed
or perhaps
> a different group than the one you mentioned?

I dunno.  The last time I had an ISP with that group, he hung out there.

Regards,
John

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Ken wrote:

> "John VanSickle" <evi### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:408C8EF8.D9D58DD2@hotmail.com...
> 
> 
>>Those whose ISP includes the Usenet group alt.binaries.3d.poser, and have the
>>time, may want to go over there and see what's being said about this.
> 
> 
> I didn't see any mention of it in that group. Is there a particular thread I missed
or perhaps
> a different group than the one you mentioned?

I think he's hanging around in the alt.slack groups:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=POV-Ray+group%3Aalt.slack.*

-- 
Tor Olav
http://subcube.net
http://subcube.com

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"pan" <pan### [at] syixcom> wrote in message news:408c6054@news.povray.org...
> How sad that news.povray.,org is now officially censored.
>
> Are there any existant forums not  subject to peculiar and
> religous censorship where artists may post their work without
> any fear of irrational opposition?

I think you're missing the point (as well as being absurd). "Are there... forums
...  where artists may post their work without any fear of irrational
opposition?" - Uh, well, yes, a few.. ;)

Speaking personally, I would have no objection to viewing images with extreme
sexual content (whether I want to view them is a different matter, but I
certainly don't object). However, these newsgroups are one of the places on the
internet where respect for other's opinions and standards is an implicit
responsibility of those using the groups. IMBJR not only refused to recognise
this, but deliberately, IMHO, subverted this understanding.

I am glad that there are many places on the internet where people may post w/o
restraint or consideration, but I'm also glad that there are places where one
may not. To demand that all public forums work w/o restraint is, IMHO, a more
serious act of suppression the banning of one arrogant troll.

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In article <408db742@news.povray.org> , Tor Olav Kristensen 
<tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDhotmailcom>  wrote:

>> I didn't see any mention of it in that group. Is there a particular
> thread I missed or perhaps
>> a different group than the one you mentioned?
>
> I think he's hanging around in the alt.slack groups:
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=POV-Ray+group%3Aalt.slack.*

And for some reason Google is not carrying his posts.  Google does have very
old ones from him in that group, however.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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Program ended abnormally on 27/04/2004 08:47, Due to a catastrophic Thorsten 
Froehlich error:
> In article <408db742@news.povray.org> , Tor Olav Kristensen 
> <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDhotmailcom>  wrote:
> 
> 
>>>I didn't see any mention of it in that group. Is there a particular
>>
>>thread I missed or perhaps
>>
>>>a different group than the one you mentioned?
>>
>>I think he's hanging around in the alt.slack groups:
>>
>>http://groups.google.com/groups?q=POV-Ray+group%3Aalt.slack.*
> 
> 
> And for some reason Google is not carrying his posts.  Google does have very
> old ones from him in that group, however.

I think he had "X-no-archive: yes." in his headers.


-- 
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/*    flabreque    */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/*        @        */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/*   videotron.ca  */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

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"Francois Labreque" <fla### [at] videotronca> wrote in message
news:408e6d49$1@news.povray.org...
> Program ended abnormally on 27/04/2004 08:47, Due to a catastrophic
Thorsten
> Froehlich error:
> > In article <408db742@news.povray.org> , Tor Olav Kristensen
> > <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDhotmailcom>  wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>I didn't see any mention of it in that group. Is there a particular
> >>
> >>thread I missed or perhaps
> >>
> >>>a different group than the one you mentioned?
> >>
> >>I think he's hanging around in the alt.slack groups:
> >>
> >>http://groups.google.com/groups?q=POV-Ray+group%3Aalt.slack.*
> >
> >
> > And for some reason Google is not carrying his posts.  Google does have
very
> > old ones from him in that group, however.
>
> I think he had "X-no-archive: yes." in his headers.

Now why would he want to do that? ;)

Lance.

thezone - thezone.firewave.com.au
thehandle - www.thehandle.com

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:408b936b$1@news.povray.org...
> Posted April 25, 2004
> ---------------------
>
>
> For the Public Record,
>
> It is with regret that this message serves as official notice that IMBJR's
> authorization to connect to news.povray.org has been revoked. This is a
> unanimously supported action on the part of the News Server Administration
> and was not done without considerable deliberation on our part.
>
This is excellent news.  The person in question has done nothing but attempt
to disrupt, posting in formats that are not yet generally supported, and
with materials, that fortunately I could not see because of this format,
while insisting that he has a right to post on what is in reality, a
privately owned server.  (Yes, I've read the entire thread.)  Chris has
every right to ban anyone he sees as being disruptive and generally
unacceptable.  As it was not his decision alone is all the more commendable.
This is one of the few graphics groups that you read not consisting mostly
of compliments to what are in many cases mediocre or less, images.

There is no censorship, only persons having the responsibility for
maintaining order in the group doing what they see as best for the group.

My support is with the admins.  If I want to see smut, I'll go to
renderotica.

Greybeard.

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>   If I want to see smut, I'll go to
> renderotica.
> 

<Groan>

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It sounds like this guy was cut a LOT of slack before finally taking 
this action. Chris, the POV-Ray team and TAG should be commended for the 
deliberate restraint demonstrated during this incident. A lot of other 
sites would either overreact in a knee-jerk fashion or would let things 
go on willy-nilly, which in the long run would only invite chaos.

------------------------

Scott Gammans
http://www.scottgammans.com
Ashburn, VA

========================

Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> In article <408c7d32$1@news.povray.org> , "Jeremy M. Praay" 
> <sla### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> 
> 
>>"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
>>news:408b936b$1@news.povray.org...
>>
>>>It is with regret that this message serves as official notice that IMBJR's
>>>authorization to connect to news.povray.org has been revoked.
>>
>>I'm fairly certain that's what IMBJR wanted...
> 
> 
> Yes, I am fairly certain about it as well.
> 
> Let me take this opportunity to summarise the events that made this action
> on our part necessary.  I would also like to express that we were very
> reluctant to take this action, but we had simply no choice:
> 
> As the reason has not been stated, and some here seem to believe it was due
> to the content of various images, the reason was actually the content of one
> image, a content unacceptable in a public forum open to minors.  It is the
> image that caused the original discussion about unacceptable content.  And
> the initial response of the Chris Cason was to see where it goes.  For the
> majority of users of this server community pressure is sufficient to let
> them behave as a guest on this server, and never has and never will any
> person be banned just because they made one mistake.
> 
> However, IMBJR posted the same content, modified as a GIF again.  This went
> on with several other images.  Those images were not new work, he simply
> took them from his website and posted them here for storage and rejected
> interest in any discussion of them.  At this point Chris Cason had no choice
> but to formally warn him that such behavior is unacceptable for various
> reasons.  This warning was issued with full support from the POV-Team and
> TAG.  As you know the POV-Team and TAG are composed of people from all over
> the world with different backgrounds.  And still we all reached the same
> conclusion that a warning was needed.  The reasons were made clear and IMBJR
> said he would comply.
> 
> So, two days ago he posted the image that caused the original controversy
> again.  This time in bright colors, but the same content of course.  The
> image was removed by us.  The next day he posted it again as he had realised
> the image had been removed.  Without doubt IMBJR was fully aware that
> posting the same image that was deemed inappropriate for posting on this
> server twice before.  As such, he posted it only for the one reason, to
> provoke controversy a third time.  This is not acceptable use of the this
> server, and for this he was banned.
> 
> After two clear warnings.  One from the community, one from the owner of
> this server.
> 
>     Thorsten
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
> e-mail: tho### [at] trfde
> 
> Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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