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i was wondering if many povers read 3d related books. i recently got
several for christmas and my birthday, all of which weren't specific to
any particular 3d program. they've been great so far, and i've got a
pretty good wish list going for more books. while many things are
somewhat obvious to those who've done other forms of art or photography,
other things i never would figure out on my own. have any of you had
similar experiences?
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Hi, Ryan. Are you asking for recommendations on book titles in the
field of ray tracing or 3d graphics?
If you are just conducting an impromptu poll, this thread is better
suited to the off-topic group, thanks.
--
Alan - ako### [at] povray org - a k o n g <at> p o v r a y <dot> o r g
http://www.povray.org - Home of the Persistence of Vision Ray Tracer
On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:55:28 -0800 Ryan Constantine wrote:
>i was wondering if many povers read 3d related books. i recently got
>several for christmas and my birthday, all of which weren't specific to
>any particular 3d program. they've been great so far, and i've got a
>pretty good wish list going for more books. while many things are
>somewhat obvious to those who've done other forms of art or photography,
>other things i never would figure out on my own. have any of you had
>similar experiences?
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i thought they got rid of the off-topic group over a month ago! is it
back?
Alan Kong wrote:
>
> Hi, Ryan. Are you asking for recommendations on book titles in the
> field of ray tracing or 3d graphics?
>
> If you are just conducting an impromptu poll, this thread is better
> suited to the off-topic group, thanks.
>
> --
> Alan - ako### [at] povrayorg - a k o n g <at> p o v r a y <dot> o r g
> http://www.povray.org - Home of the Persistence of Vision Ray Tracer
>
> On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:55:28 -0800 Ryan Constantine wrote:
>
> >i was wondering if many povers read 3d related books. i recently got
> >several for christmas and my birthday, all of which weren't specific to
> >any particular 3d program. they've been great so far, and i've got a
> >pretty good wish list going for more books. while many things are
> >somewhat obvious to those who've done other forms of art or photography,
> >other things i never would figure out on my own. have any of you had
> >similar experiences?
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On Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:29:25 -0800 Ryan Constantine wrote:
>i thought they got rid of the off-topic group over a month ago! is it
>back?
Yes. It was re-opened a few days ago. I didn't want to re-direct
followups to my reply because I wasn't sure what you were asking. If you
think your question is better suited in p.o-t, by all means re-post in
that group and just let the folks who reply in p.general know that
you'll continue over in p.o-t. See you over there <s>.
--
Alan - ako### [at] povrayorg - a k o n g <at> p o v r a y <dot> o r g
http://www.povray.org - Home of the Persistence of Vision Ray Tracer
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> >i thought they got rid of the off-topic group over a month ago! is it
> >back?
>
> Yes. It was re-opened a few days ago. I didn't want to re-direct
> followups to my reply because I wasn't sure what you were asking. If you
> think your question is better suited in p.o-t, by all means re-post in
> that group and just let the folks who reply in p.general know that
> you'll continue over in p.o-t. See you over there <s>.
i see. well, i was just hoping for a general discussion on books, not a
poll. i'm interested in recommendations, insights gleaned from books,
things read that are applicable to pov, etc. for example, i've recently
read two of bill flemings' books, and while i did already know some of
it, and found other parts to be slightly incorrect (like when he says
you can always see welds), there was still a lot of useful information.
one thing in particular was his checklist for photorealism. so far as
his art goes, i have seen better. but many of his approaches to things
are really good. the items he discusses aren't specific to any
particular 3d package, and although his tutorials use mesh modelers, i
find they aren't super difficult to adapt to spatch, moray, or even hand
coding. i also like that he strongly advocates details in models,
rather than using image maps to add details. he does like image maps,
but he thinks that a model should look good in monotone before you
surface it. another book on my list of books to get is the '___: a
procedural approach' (i can't quite remember the full title). it is
supposedly non-package specific as well and should be applicable to
pov. i'm also wondering about the renderman books since one of our
povers has added its shading language to his own compile of pov. there
are also books out there about lighting and staging (staging being the
placement of camera and objects in a scene). at the very least, most 3d
hobbyists could benefit from books on staging. too often, scenes look
dull and contrived. a lot of povers have the desire, but neither an
artistic background, nor an inate understanding of scene construction.
they can make models just fine, and some can even texture them fine,
whether procedurally or with image maps. but putting things together in
a way that draws in the viewer simply escapes many pov artists.
however, i don't really 'hear' much discussion in any of these groups on
scene construction or modeling technique. mostly it seams discussions
are on how to make a macro do this or that, or why this thingy doesn't
do what was expected, etc. a few artists (like gilles tran) have
websites that actually have 'the making of' an image. these are quite
insightful and more of this kind of 'secret' sharing would benefit the
pov community at large. too often, i think, we wonder and even ask
"how'd he do that" and get little or no response. posting scene code
isn't always the best answer to that question. to know someone's train
of thought or insights learned is far more valuable than scene code.
likewise, discussion of such topics in the newsgoups would also be
great. for example, some of h.e. day's blob spaceships are awesome! it
would be great if he told us how he did it. few of us have mastered
pov's blobs to such a high degree, and much trial and error could be
overstepped with just a little instruction. perhaps i'm wrong and many
articles like these exist here. in any case, i would suggest to all
readers that next time you have one of those lightbulbs go on in your
head, or you feel pride at completing a cool pic, share words with us as
well as the image. maybe even write a short essay or something. it
would add a lot more depth and value to an already great community
(these newsgroups).
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On Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:55:26 -0800, Ryan Constantine wrote:
>surface it. another book on my list of books to get is the '___: a
>procedural approach' (i can't quite remember the full title). it is
>supposedly non-package specific as well and should be applicable to
>pov. i'm also wondering about the renderman books since one of our
"Texturing and Modeling: A Procedural Approach." It's not as applicable
to a generic POV user as one might think, though it has some stuff that
might be of use to those writing patches for POV.
--
Ron Parker http://www2.fwi.com/~parkerr/traces.html
My opinions. Mine. Not anyone else's.
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I agree that it would be nice to hear more about others' designing
techniques, but it's quite difficult to write about it, especially the
artistic aspects. 'Making of' texts are often very interesting, but they
are quite a lot of work.
I also usually prefer writing about a scene to posting the complete source
code, because the individual concept of a scene is something that should
not be copied IMO.
Christoph
--
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
IsoWood include, radiosity tutorial, TransSkin and other
things on: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/
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Hi - this might be a really random question - but did you used to be a
memeber of CompuServe ? The name rings a bell fromt he old days of the
POVray forum (and GraphDev).
if not then sorry to both you.
Ol (formally 100522.1106 !)
Alan Kong wrote:
>
> Hi, Ryan. Are you asking for recommendations on book titles in the
> field of ray tracing or 3d graphics?
>
> If you are just conducting an impromptu poll, this thread is better
> suited to the off-topic group, thanks.
>
> --
> Alan - ako### [at] povrayorg - a k o n g <at> p o v r a y <dot> o r g
> http://www.povray.org - Home of the Persistence of Vision Ray Tracer
>
> On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:55:28 -0800 Ryan Constantine wrote:
>
> >i was wondering if many povers read 3d related books. i recently got
> >several for christmas and my birthday, all of which weren't specific to
> >any particular 3d program. they've been great so far, and i've got a
> >pretty good wish list going for more books. while many things are
> >somewhat obvious to those who've done other forms of art or photography,
> >other things i never would figure out on my own. have any of you had
> >similar experiences?
--
Oliver Wood
University Of Durham
http://www.dur.ac.uk/o.e.wood/
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A bad one of little help to povvers is "3D Human Modelling and Animation" by
to povray, even sPatch, and has too much of one artist's work.
A good one that has been helpful for me as I try to assemble a body in
povray is "Digital Character Animation."
Ryan Constantine wrote:
> i was wondering if many povers read 3d related books.
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Ryan Constantine wrote:
>
> i'm also wondering about the renderman books since one of our
> povers has added its shading language to his own compile of pov.
I'd recommend ARM (Advanced RenderMan) by Gritz and Apodaca. It contains
quite a lot of information and examples about shaders. Additionally it
contains some recommendations from CGI industry people about staging and
lighting as well.
> there
> are also books out there about lighting and staging (staging being the
> placement of camera and objects in a scene).
I have Jeremy Birn's "[digital]lighting and rendering". It contains
basic stuff about scene, lighting and composition setup. For medium or
advanced users there is nothing new, but for such beginner in this area
like me, it contains some of good tips and tricks.
[Snip]
Yes, seems, like this server is more devoted to technical discussion
instead of artistical (although binaries.images contains some artistical
advices). Perhaps this is due to the fact, that when one is using pure
POV-Ray, then technical part will consume such amount of effort, that
there will be no more resources (devotion, will, wish, ideas etc.) for
composition. And most of users are amateurs in this area, without any
art education.
Perhaps there should be separate group for composition etc.? Although
I'm not sure how this will work. Current approach (one posts picture to
p.b.i and others recommend and advice) seems to be best so far.
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