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This means that the ISPs assume that the authors of the resources know that someone is
linking directly to them. How can the ISPs know about a direct link without browsing
the
whole web?
Brendan Ryan
Ken wrote:
> direct violation of their ISP's TOS. For
> example XOOM and geocities directly forbid linking directly to files on
> pages they provide space for. You run the risk of making it so that
> these page providers will pull the accounts of the people whos files you
> are linking to.
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On Mon, 15 May 2000 15:27:45 -0400, Andrea Ryan wrote:
>This means that the ISPs assume that the authors of the resources know that someone
is
>linking directly to them. How can the ISPs know about a direct link without browsing
the
>whole web?
The HTTP Referer: field. Lots of people log that as a matter of course.
--
Ron Parker http://www2.fwi.com/~parkerr/traces.html
These are my opinions. I do NOT speak for the POV-Team.
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A frantic looking man stops at a street corner, rolls down his window and
says to a stranger: "Hey! Can you help me? I forgot my wedding
anniversary and I have a short amount of TIME to shop for a diamond ring for
my wife! I need to FIND a good bottle of champagne and rent a tuxedo for
dinner too, which is only a couple hours away!!! Can you give me directions
so I can do these things ASAP????"
The stranger, knowing the man is NEW to his town, thinks for a minute and
then responds:
"Uhmmmm.... SURE! Drive east three blocks and then stop at the city park,
the roses are in bloom there! Beyond the rose garden, you should be just in
time to watch my kid play softball at the ballpark! During the game, ask
the guy who is selling hotdogs there (not the tall skinny one, the other
shorter one, but not the one with a beard, the one with the glasses) to
point out the wineshop across the street."
"When you are done there at the wineshop, just leave your car parked and
ride the public transit bus with the signs on it that say "Historic Route".
It will take an hour to get to the tux rental, but the houses and other
buildings along the way are sure to make your day!"
"And then, stop by the new hardware store and the new art galleries, be sure
to try a fresh bagel at......... What did you need to buy again?"
The man squeals the tires and leaves in disgust. This is part of the
reason people still feel justified buying things like Bryce... for the
easily accessable resources and support.
Rune, you have a nice website. Really! But how many mouse clicks does it
take to find it from a search engine? Also, graphically intensive sites
like yours, hosted outside the US, are tedious to surf through with a slower
connection like mine. Or even if you KNOW you can find a link there from
the www.povray.org? Now add up the clicks and the hours of searching to
find 100+ resources... don't forget broken links and "websites left to rot
in cyberspace"!
Resources like yours should be returned to the pov community in the spirit
that the essential software itself is: Free of strings! If people want to
visit your website, good! I have (had) a link to it as well. If you are
only worried about getting "hits" on your website, than say so... or better
yet, make your includes shareware or some other format that gives you a bit
of control.
Until further notice, I am pulling my links page, the only one that was
deemed worthy of listing at www.povray.org, because YOU and a few others
seem to have such a problem with what I have done. I will be sure to let
others know who they can thank, ok?
The povray community can remain in the shadows of elitism; resources
mouldering in a rickety maze of links and REDUNDANT websites.
To those who have been offended by my linking policy, I apologize sincerely.
To those who will miss seeing their hard work promoted through my site and
forums, I apologize sincerely. If you are interested in having your website
and/or resources catalouged in a future listing, or stored for archive
purposes (so those new to povray can find all the good stuff without surfing
hundreds of websites), please email me.
Thanks in advance.
October
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I agree completely.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
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"October" <oct### [at] hotmail com> wrote :
>
> Resources like yours should be returned to the pov community in the spirit
> that the essential software itself is: Free of strings!
You don't see the problem with making this decision for other people?
Here's another nice story. An artist spend his life creating a body of work
and some guy just decides that the artist "should" share it with the world
so he takes it without asking and hangs it up in a local bar where it is
easy for everyone to see. I call that thievery.
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October wrote:
> The povray community can remain in the shadows of elitism; resources
> mouldering in a rickety maze of links and REDUNDANT websites.
>
> To those who have been offended by my linking policy, I apologize sincerely.
> To those who will miss seeing their hard work promoted through my site and
> forums, I apologize sincerely. If you are interested in having your website
> and/or resources catalouged in a future listing, or stored for archive
> purposes (so those new to povray can find all the good stuff without surfing
> hundreds of websites), please email me.
I think you are misinterpreting our criticism and over reacting. No one
minds you providing a well researched collection of POV-Ray resource links
together in one place. In fact you will find that I, above all others that
frequent these groups, do more to promote the sharing of Pov related resources
than anyone else. I can't remember the number of people I have cajoled into
putting their material on a web page so that I might provide a link to it in
my collecion. All of this so that others may learn and or bennifit from the
sharing of information and resources.
The one thing I have been very careful about however is making sure that
I advertise the site along with the resource. There are maybe 5 links out
of 1400 that will allow you to directly download a file. The rest require
you to visit the site to get the files. I used to do more linking directly
to the files but I got several complaints. One person mentioned that his
ISP complained about the direct links coming from my site. They almost
pulled his account.
In the three years I have been doing this now I have had nothing but positive
comments from people because I have helped increase traffic to their sites.
Additionaly in the three years I have been doing this I have learned a lot
about internet protocol and one of the important things I have learned is
that you do not link directly to files on someone elses web site without
permission.
--
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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"Ken" <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote in message news:3920EAE6.7CD208CF@pacbell.net...
{
{ October wrote:
{
{ > The povray community can remain in the shadows of elitism; resources
{ > mouldering in a rickety maze of links and REDUNDANT websites.
{ >
{ > To those who have been offended by my linking policy, I apologize sincerely.
{ > To those who will miss seeing their hard work promoted through my site and
{ > forums, I apologize sincerely. If you are interested in having your website
{ > and/or resources catalouged in a future listing, or stored for archive
{ > purposes (so those new to povray can find all the good stuff without surfing
{ > hundreds of websites), please email me.
{
{ I think you are misinterpreting our criticism and over reacting. No one
{ minds you providing a well researched collection of POV-Ray resource links
{ together in one place. In fact you will find that I, above all others that
{ frequent these groups, do more to promote the sharing of Pov related resources
<snipped>
{ In the three years I have been doing this now I have had nothing but positive
{ comments from people because I have helped increase traffic to their sites.
{ Additionaly in the three years I have been doing this I have learned a lot
{ about internet protocol and one of the important things I have learned is
{ that you do not link directly to files on someone elses web site without
{ permission.
I'm haphazard myself, the ignorant s.o.b. that I am :-)
Often I see it as a more suitable thing to link to a web page since it
will have info about a file. Even if it's on a FTP directory I might link to the
whole
thing instead of a solitary file.
However I have also quite often shared a link with others via email or at a
message board (and here at news.povray I'm pretty sure) which simply goes
directly to a file. Seeing the talk here has me trying to rethink this.
Back to the subject matter, I hate to see a good resource pulled but there's
obviously something to be considered mo
re thoroughly. Takes time to think
and that's how I viewed all this. There was delay in getting any agreements
(or otherwise). Most of all since there's more to it than even personal choices
then it probably is best if October were to try and adjust to those internet "rules",
so maybe there is still a way to get the web page satisfactory for all.
Well, just expressing my opinion. Don't want to step on toes. It was a great
set of links.
Bob
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On Tue, 16 May 2000 03:32:24 -0500, "Bob Hughes" >I'm haphazard myself, the
ignorant s.o.b. that I am :-)
>Often I see it as a more suitable thing to link to a web page since it
>will have info about a file. Even if it's on a FTP directory I might link to the
whole
>thing instead of a solitary file.
>However I have also quite often shared a link with others via email or at a
>message board (and here at news.povray I'm pretty sure) which simply goes
>directly to a file. Seeing the talk here has me trying to rethink this.
>Back to the subject matter, I hate to see a good resource pulled but there's
>obviously something to be considered mo
>re thoroughly. Takes time to think
>and that's how I viewed all this. There was delay in getting any agreements
>(or otherwise). Most of all since there's more to it than even personal choices
>then it probably is best if October were to try and adjust to those internet "rules",
>so maybe there is still a way to get the web page satisfactory for all.
>Well, just expressing my opinion. Don't want to step on toes. It was a great
>set of links.
>
>Bob
>
>
>
I would have to agree that October should only link to the web-page. One
moment I haven't seen mentioned her is that not all have access to the
logg-files, or have only partial access. On my new home away from home the
provider only reveals the HTML-file accesses and discard everything else. So
the only way I can get an idea how many downloads my NewIOR.inc file is to see
how many access the page it is linked from. Others who even don't get a
partial log have to rely on 3rd party providers like Superstats to get such
information. And if they make obscure files like the NewIOR, any feedback is
welcome. If they see people access the HTML-page they know some are interested
in it, and that can be a powerful incentive to keep upgrade it.
Sven-Erik Andersen
----
sve### [at] andersenas
sea### [at] mailcitycom
http://seasoft.tecbox.com/
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Bob Hughes wrote:
> "Ken" <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote in message news:3920EAE6.7CD208CF@pacbell.net...
> {
> { October wrote:
> {
> { > The povray community can remain in the shadows of elitism; resources
> { > mouldering in a rickety maze of links and REDUNDANT websites.
> { >
> { I think you are misinterpreting our criticism and over reacting. No one
> { minds you providing a well researched collection of POV-Ray resource links
> { together in one place. In fact you will find that I, above all others that
> { frequent these groups, do more to promote the sharing of Pov related resources
> <snipped>
>
> However I have also quite often shared a link with others via email or at a
> message board (and here at news.povray I'm pretty sure) which simply goes
> directly to a file.
One matter I have not seen mentioned here is the danger of broken links to images that
no
longer exist, a POV artist, who has a very good image file on his site, like Rune for
instance, the artist has no idea that someone has a link directly to his image, he
then
decides that the image is not good enough and changes it, hence, a broken link.
Linking to the web page is more beneficial to the web users as a whole, than having a
page
full of broken links to files or images that are not there.
I have been the victim of such links many many times, It is frustrating to say the
least.
All the above means that I agree with Rune. I would rather visit a web site than try
to
find a file that is not there.
--
,-._|\ Alex McMurray
/ Oz \ ale### [at] melbpcorgau Melbourne PC User Group.
\_,--.x/ Melton. Vic. 3337 Australia
v
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Alex McMurray wrote:
> One matter I have not seen mentioned here is the danger of broken links to
> images that no longer exist, a POV artist, who has a very good image file
> on his site, like Rune for instance, the artist has no idea that someone
> has a link directly to his image, he then decides that the image is not
> good enough and changes it, hence, a broken link.
This has caused me a lot of work. I used to bypass the entry page
to a web site and linked directly to the page containing a particular
resource. Without letting me know site owners have redesigned their
web sites and renamed the page containing the resoures I was linking
to. When checking for broken links I had to try to find out why my
links were no longer any good. For the most part I know link only to
the main page. I know it takes longer for people to find the stuff I
am linking to but they have a better chance of at least finding the
right web site.
--
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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