On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:04:44 -0400, Bernd M. Jordan wrote:
>One thing that struck me while following the discussion (which, btw, is
>really way off topic) is that some of you use a newsreader from the old
>times, i.e. when the net was used only by students and other members of the
>mental elite. Yet, all of you cannot wait until a new version of PoV-Ray
>comes out. That IMHO is schizophrenic.

I don't understand this.  I use the most modern newsreader I could find, 
one that has features Netscape, Microsoft, and even Forte haven't bothered 
to provide in their primitive newsreaders, and yet people still insist that 
it is obsolete.  Let the GUI brainwashing commence, I guess.  

Perhaps we should ask the POV-Team to stop wasting time on that MS-DOS 
port, and the Unix povray and s-povray versions.  After all, if it doesn't 
have windows and a mouse, it's primitive.  And I guess that Macintosh port
isn't very useful, either.  I mean, after all, some huge percentage of 
people use Windows, so it must be better.  And if they can't use our BMP
files and Moray scenes, that's their problem.  They should clearly upgrade 
their computers. 

Feh!

For the record, I modified my killfile to only kill Matt in this thread,
because he does have some useful things to say when he's being rational.
I hope to have a vcard filter written for slrn in a day or two, so then 
I'll be able to again read his posts without screaming.  Users of other
open-source newsreader software who know C (that means you, Warp :) ), 
I urge you to take up the gauntlet: add a vcard filter to your newsreader,
then submit it back to your newsreader's maintainer.  Make the world a
better place for everyone, and let the Netscape users rot in their own
private vcard-inundated hell.

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Steve wrote:

> It's the download that's the annoyance and the loading whatever
> group it is in, not the content.  It's just spam.

	I think I know the one real and the dozen imaginary meanings of
spam. You appear to be in the imaginary zone. 

	In my time I have told folks with their HTML on that fine but
turn it off because they are not using it. Defaults are fun but
... Use it, fine. No problem. 

	The HTML encapsulation of elementary information is not a bad
idea. Now you can object to all the extra vcards but they are not
duplicated where sigs are with every post. If I post a million
messages, you get a million sigs and only vcard. And I know that
is dependent on cluster size and packet size and all the rest. It
might be a totally dumb idea. 

	From my point of view. I started posting in these newsgroups
about seven months ago. 

	I started the vcard about that time. I can explain if you know
Windows but otherwise don't ask. 

	Then after posting in almost every group for all that time,
including this one, I get a nastygram from one person in general.
He starts a flame war. A statement that "we don't do that here"
would have been fine and treated accordingly. Who the hell is we? 

	Remember "including this one."

	And I do not give a rat's ass who reads what I poat or not. He
who has eyes, let him read. He who doea not read, EF off. 

	From what most of my readers say there is a greater cost in
following my convoluted syntax than ignoring lines that are
obviously to be ignored can possibly compare to. 

	Is that a good enough example?

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Ron Parker <par### [at] fwicom> wrote:
: Users of other
: open-source newsreader software who know C (that means you, Warp :) ), 
: I urge you to take up the gauntlet: add a vcard filter to your newsreader,
: then submit it back to your newsreader's maintainer.  Make the world a
: better place for everyone, and let the Netscape users rot in their own
: private vcard-inundated hell.

  I have to think about that.
  I shouldn't be too hard after all...

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Nieminen Mika wrote:

>   Then I apologize. Forgive me.
>   Now I ask you. Is that ok?

	Fine. Back to our regularly scheduled absurdities. :)

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Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
> :       Don't play that stupld game with me. Use your filter or shut up.


	Back to our regularly scheduled absurditeis. :)

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Hey Matt,

First, let me say that I'm not about to tell you what you should do or should not
do. I'm also not about to tell you that your own choices are right or wrong. I
don't have the right or the privilege. There's a lot of heat flying around on this
topic and I am not inclined to add to it. Instead, I thought I'd just share my
point of view as to how I do things, without placing judgment on anyone else.

For me, I view these newsgroups as a resource. Typically, I post to them to ask
questions, answer questions, get opinions or offer opinions. When I'm posting
messages, one of the primary considerations I have is whether or not everyone will
be able to read my messages. There have been times when I have been tempted to add
in colored text, bold or italicized text, etc. But I always resist the temptation.
Doing otherwise may preclude the ability of some readers to understand what I am
saying. That, in my mind, would end up defeating the purpose of my posting
something in the first place. It could also end up precluding my getting the
answers I need.

Anyhow. That's how I do things. :{) Hope I haven't wasted more than a moment or two
of your time. But if I have, feel free to filter me out in the future. <grin>

David

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Matt Giwer wrote:

>         Where do the owners of this newsgroup have that rule stated?
> Please state EXACTLY where that rule is stated.

  The official stance of the owners of this server are as follows though
unrelated material was removed to maintain brevity. You may read the full
context of the server posting policy in the announcement group here on this
server...

-------------

Put simply, a binary is any file that is not a plain text file. For our
newsgroup purposes, the following are examples of binary files:

- JPEGs, or other graphic file formats,

- HTML-encoded text (many people who follow our newsgroups use
  newsreaders that cannot automatically read HTML posts without
  launching an external Web browser. Please post plain text messages or,
  at least a combination of plain text and HTML),

- any executable file,

- any other file that is sent as an attachment to a posted message, even
    if it is readable text. This includes POV-Ray scene (.pov) files
    sent as message attachments.

----------

  I would have to say that you Vcard falls into these categories by virtue of
the fact that it is an attachment. Please act responsibly and do yourself a
favour and take the time to read the server access policy in it's entirety.

-- 
Ken Tyler

See my 700+ Povray and 3D Rendering and Raytracing Links at:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html

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On 11 Aug 1999 12:21:22 -0400, Nieminen Mika wrote:
>Ron Parker <par### [at] fwicom> wrote:
>: Users of other
>: open-source newsreader software who know C (that means you, Warp :) ), 
>: I urge you to take up the gauntlet: add a vcard filter to your newsreader,
>: then submit it back to your newsreader's maintainer.  Make the world a
>: better place for everyone, and let the Netscape users rot in their own
>: private vcard-inundated hell.
>
>  I have to think about that.
>  I shouldn't be too hard after all...

I am now the proud owner of a vcard-free slrn.  It was a three-line change
in the routine that reads articles (it uses strstr to check the current line
for the string "text/x-vcard".  If found, it stops reading.)  Your mileage 
probably will vary, of course.  And now I'm going to remove Matt from my 
score file, since I found such a nice solution.

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Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
: It is a matter of mutual respect and there is none at this point. 

  That seems to be right, since "mutual" means that both of us respect
each other.
  At least I respect you. I apologized for insulting you and being rude. I
have never attacked the contents of your articles (at least outside this
flame war). You exasperated me at the beginning and I participated in this
flame war between us, and I'm sorry about that now. I don't want to continue
this war.
  However, your insults bother me. I don't want let you thinking bad things
about me. I think that this news server has one big denominator which is
seldom found in the internet: Friendship.
  I asked (in a too rude manner) you something, but you are not going to
do it. Well, I just have to live with that.
  However, I find it hard to live with all those insults you have said about
me. I don't want any enmity between us. It would be nice if we could read
each other's posts without hard feelings.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Ken wrote:

> Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> >         Where do the owners of this newsgroup have that rule stated?
> > Please state EXACTLY where that rule is stated.
> 
>   The official stance of the owners of this server are as follows though
> unrelated material was removed to maintain brevity. You may read the full
> context of the server posting policy in the announcement group here on this
> server...

	I will await the opinion of the newsgroup owners in reguards to
the subject of a Netscape utility. 

	Pardon if I do not take you as authortitative. 

	Next I am going to be told that only the Linux version of POV is
valid. 

	You can not limit teh world. You can only grow with it, like to
or not. That is what the buggywhip manufacturers learned.

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