Hi everyone, thanks for the great response to my post.  Well, I've read
through all of them and I've come to the conclusion that there is NOT an
automatic way to do this in POV-Ray.  My goal was for my image to look
like an old B&W photo, old west style particularly.  I guess it seems to
me that the only real way to do it is to do what Ken said and just give
each object a grey color.  I haven't actually tried it yet so I don't
know how hard it will be.  Actually, I think it may give me some very
badly needed control over my colors and textures (I can never seem to
get them quite right).  I'll have a go at it and post my creation in
binaries.images when I'm done.  Well, here goes nothin'.  

Once again, thanks everyone for racking your brains trying to think of a
solution.  I really appreciate it.  

		Kyle


Ken wrote:
> 
> Kyle wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone.  I have a quick question.  Is there any way to have POV-Ray
> > render in black and white?  I'm thinking about submitting an IRTC image
> > in black and white, but since post-processing is not allowed, I don't
> > see a good way to do it.  Is there some setting in POV-Ray for this?  Of
> > course, I can just give all the objects a greyish color but I don't
> > think that would come out very nicely.  Well, if anyone has a suggestion
> > I'd be very grateful to hear it.
> >
> >                 Kyle
> 
>   See what a mess you started here Kyle ?
> 
>   One other possibility that the folks in this crowd can grind donw the
> merit of is using a reflection vector with every object in the scene.
> If you use reflection <0.5,0.5,0.5> the color reflected off the object
> will by a 50% gray and the rest will be filtered out. How well this
> would work is untested and I don't know if you can stack reflection
> vectors on top of each other. If you can it might be possible to make
> a global reflection for the whole scene. Or - maybe not !
> 
> --
> Ken Tyler
> 
> mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net

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Lance Birch wrote:
> 
> NO NO NO!!!  It DOESN'T WORK!!!
> 
> Ken, have you tried a red light source on a red and white sphere lately?
> I'd like you to try making that in greyscale...  This is the point I missed
> in my first post and I really should have pointed it out earlier.  Remember,
> because the light sources can be different colours, the surfaces of objects
> will react in different ways.  Like a blue shere will look different under
> red light... and another coloured sphere under the same light will look
> different again.  If you convert the lights to just intenisties (which is
> what you're suggesting) the surfaces won't react differently so the objects
> won't appear realistic.
> 
> Remember, the problem lies in the wavelengths.
> 
> --
> Lance.

YES YES YES ! IT DOES TOO WORK !!!!!

 By my will,
 My will alone,
 I set my mind in motion...

   Grey is grey is grey is grey and you can't turn it red or blue in a
 grey world.
   It's the artistic interpretation of the colors applied to the medium
 that will make it work and the physics of are not important to the the
 minds interpretation of the colors. If I have an object I want colored
 a certain way THAT is physical reality. If I have to match the grey
 colors in a black and white photo then there may be an issue but only
 if I choose to make an issue out of it. Fact is with art you don't
 have to care about physical reality. Show me a painting by one of
 the "Masters" that really looks like a 3D human were standing there.
 I have yet to see one.

  Get my point or should I rationalize it a bit more for you ?

 -- 
 Ken Tyler

 mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net

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I hate to tell this to you Mr Tyler but this is one time that I AM RIGHT!

I want you to replicate this for me in greyscale... using your so-called
"rationalisations".

You have a yellow sphere, a red light to the left, a blue light to the
right.  The result after rendering and conversion to greyscale is NOT the
same as converting the colours to intesities and then rendering.

Do you want me to prove it with pictures?

--
Lance.


---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone

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I hate to tell you this but Ken is wrong, the result CANNOT be the same.
For example, if you have a yellow sphere, a red light to the left, a blue
light to the right, after rendering and converting to greyscale the result
with NOT be the same as converting the colours to grey first and then
rendering.  (As the converted lights will not react the same way with the
objects because they no longer obey colour laws of wavelength, they all have
mono-wavelengths)

--
Lance.


---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone

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UH-OH....The challenge has been issued....the stakes are high....what'll
happen next in this high drama matchup between 2 leading POV-Ray
superpowers???  Stay tuned to find out....

	Kyle


Lance Birch wrote:
> 
> I hate to tell this to you Mr Tyler but this is one time that I AM RIGHT!
> 
> I want you to replicate this for me in greyscale... using your so-called
> "rationalisations".
> 
> You have a yellow sphere, a red light to the left, a blue light to the
> right.  The result after rendering and conversion to greyscale is NOT the
> same as converting the colours to intesities and then rendering.
> 
> Do you want me to prove it with pictures?
> 
> --
> Lance.
> 
> ---
> For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
> The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone

Post a reply to this message

Oh don't worry, I realized that early on.  I'm only planning on using
one white light anyway.  If I do happen to add more they will definately
be white also.  That would be WAY too hard to try to compensate for
different light colors and probably far out of my league as well.
		Kyle

Lance Birch wrote:
> 
> I hate to tell you this but Ken is wrong, the result CANNOT be the same.
> For example, if you have a yellow sphere, a red light to the left, a blue
> light to the right, after rendering and converting to greyscale the result
> with NOT be the same as converting the colours to grey first and then
> rendering.  (As the converted lights will not react the same way with the
> objects because they no longer obey colour laws of wavelength, they all have
> mono-wavelengths)
> 
> --
> Lance.
> 
> ---
> For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
> The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone

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:)  Yes, especially considering it isn't possible ;-)

Come on Ken, show your face!  Do you want me to prove it?

(I never back down from a wavelength challenge!!!  ;-)

--
Lance.


---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone

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After repeated taunting by Lance, Ken has yet to respond.  Has he given
up?  Has he admitted defeat?  Or does Ken have an ace up his sleeve? 
What'll happen next?  Don't touch that dial kids!!

		Kyle


Lance Birch wrote:
> 
> :)  Yes, especially considering it isn't possible ;-)
> 
> Come on Ken, show your face!  Do you want me to prove it?
> 
> (I never back down from a wavelength challenge!!!  ;-)
> 
> --
> Lance.
> 
> ---
> For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
> The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone

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By the way Ken, if you are planning on coming up with some strange excuse, I
already have the images that will prove my theory correct!  BA HA HA HA!!!
;-)

(And now, for a commercial break)

--
Lance.


---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone

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In any case, I've just been chatting with Peter and I think it's important
that I draw attention to his post of 13/03/99 6:12 where he has a final
solution to all these problems :)

--
Lance.


---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone

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