On 11/12/2016 6:16 PM, Mike Horvath wrote:
> On 11/7/2016 6:51 PM, [GDS|Enropy] wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> As a result of a different discussion, I used Google Trends to track
>> searches for Pov since 2004.
>>
>> What I found is sad, but I think I found a ray of hope (d'oh..pun).
>>
>> Since 2004, searches for (pov ray and pov-ray) have practically dropped
>> orders of magnitude:
>> https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=pov-ray,pov%20ray
>>
>> Searches for (povray) are worse:
>> https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=pov-ray,pov%20ray,povray
>>
>> Here is povray vs blender and sketch up:
>>
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=pov-ray,blender%203d,pov%20ray,sketchup
>>
>>
>> I found that the interest in Pov seems highly localized, whereas blender
>> and sketchup are more widely spread.
>>
>> What is this hope of which I speak?
>>
>> Well, SketchUp is apparently MADLY popular, and there is a plugin called
>> SU2POV which allows interop.
>>
>> I didn't even know it existed until I specifically searched for a
>> Sketchup
>> plugin for Pov...so I think if that plugin could be improved, and
>> sketchup
>> users here and elsewhere did a bit of old-school mid 90's software
>> evangelism...Pov might just get a good influx of new blood.
>>
>> This would need to be done most especially by those speaking other
>> languages, due to the highly localized interest in Pov vs sketchup.
>>
>> Does anyone else have thoughts about this? Strategies?
>>
>> Ian
>>
>
> The main reasons I use POV-Ray are because it's free, and because I'm
> too lazy to learn Blender. My 2 cents.
>
> Mike

_AND_ I like to code.

Mike

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"Sherry K. Shaw" <ten### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
> > Ah! There it is! This has been indeed one of the major complaints:
> > people (outside of POV-Ray) do not want to create using text editors
> > (any more).
>
> I Do Not Fingerpaint.
>
> I Do Not Use Software That Expects Me To Fingerpaint.
>
> I Am A Grownup.  I Can Read And Write.  I Can Do Math.
>
> Reading And Writing And Math Are Accurate.  Fingerpainting Is Guesswork.
>   I Like Accuracy.  I Do Not Like Guesswork.
>
> I Like Reading And Writing.  I Like Doing Math.  I Want To Read And
> Write And Do Math.  I Do Not Want To Fingerpaint.
>
> And that's why I do POV-Ray.*  :)

artists do love to fingerpaint, programmers don't (aside from wildguesses)

that's the main deal about Blender adoption vs povray decline

that said, Blender is scripted in python, it can be as accurate as you want.
Wanna scale an object to be 2x as width onscreen?  Type s2x or s3.14y or
whatever.  There are also metric tools.

like it or not, povray is an ancient codebase geared at tech-heads with some
artistic urges and little else.  As it is, we're lucky that there's an
integrated povray exporter in Blender.  though with cycles now being the default
renderer and a path-tracing at that, I wonder about its true utility...

the best thing about povray is the HOF.

just look how far in the past it became:  we are still using usenet to talk
about it.  how about some whatsapp? :p

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On Wed, 16 Nov 2016 14:29:51 -0500, nemesis wrote:

> just look how far in the past it became:  we are still using usenet to
> talk about it.  how about some whatsapp? :p

Oh hell no. ;)

But maybe something like Discourse - though I'd prefer something that has 
the capability of an NNTP backend, but that's just me being an Internet 
luddite. ;)

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 15-11-2016 21:10, [GDS|Entropy] wrote:
> A kindred soul!

:D
Pov folks are the best!

> I have not read all of those but a fair amount of them over the years. 
> Iain M. Banks has been a recent discovery of mine. A pity he passed 
> away; I would have enjoyed more of his Culture novels.
> 

Oh no! I didn't know he died. I kept checking his iBooks list... That
sucks. Maybe he left some notes for future books to his estate....<hopes>.
A colleague when I was in Kansas training for this one company turned me
onto Banks.

I was sad about Pratchett and Clarke too. Both wrote some GREAT books and
both also did some nice collaborations with Baxter. Clarke is how I FOUND
Baxter and Pratchett.

I remember when the movie Interstellar came out...whoever wrote that read
Baxters Ark (of the Flood/Ark duo). They ripped off SO much from it, it was
embarrassing. I think they must have been a Baxter fan, because there was a
LOT from his other books like nods to the Xelee sequence and more.

Greg Egan I spoke to a few weeks ago and he has some epics in the works. I
had to reverse engineer his email address based on knowing his country and
website...but it worked! Lol. I really enjoyed the Orthogonal series,
Schilds Ladder, Diaspora and more. I hope he extends the universes of those
books, and I told him as much. They are so rich and vibrant and believable,
it would be a shame to have only one book in them (Schilds ladder,
Diaspora). Orthogonal was really cool, with how he constructed the
operation of time and space...4d axis was actually navigably spatial AND
temporal...sick!

The guy actually builds reasonably self-consistent axiomatic foundations
(enter Godels incompleteness theorems lol) for the physics in his
universes....talk about hardcore!

Baxter also is pretty hard in certain respects, I loved his solar system
sized fractal shaped computer, and how he went into Godel a good
bit....then his representation of navigable Kerr metric...(Xelee) and his
sick wormhole artifacts from the Manifold trilogy...the universes man..

Ian

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LanuHum <Lan### [at] yandexru> wrote:
> [GDS|Entropy] <gdsHYPHENentropyAThotmaolDOTcom> wrote:
>> 
>> My ideal UI would be like TrueSpace 3 + Bryce + Houdini.
>> Hell, Houdini is frankly in my opinion perfect. I just cannot afford it,
>> though there is a free version and a cheap version I like to own full
>> versions, so Lightwave haha!
>> 
>> Ian
> 
> You can not afford to Houdini?
> I can afford to Houdini.
> I do not like Windows. The interface Windows is much scarier than Blender GUI.
> Some people can not afford the Windows!
> Povray - cross-platform application and Blender - cross-platform application.
> They can use a child from a poor family, if it finds a landfill discarded
> computer. He installs Linux, Blender, Povray and may find its purpose
> Do not forget about it!
> Talented people are not all rich.
> 

If you have the 8,000 usd for full Houdini then you are fortunate my
friend! Alas, The Minister of Finance (wife) would have none of that...lol

Ian

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nemesis <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

Ah Nemesis! Good to see you still here after all these years. :)

> artists do love to fingerpaint, programmers don't (aside from wildguesses)
> 

We might write a program that finger-paints. :p

> that's the main deal about Blender adoption vs povray decline
> 
> that said, Blender is scripted in python, it can be as accurate as you want.
> Wanna scale an object to be 2x as width onscreen?  Type s2x or s3.14y or
> whatever.  There are also metric tools.

Thats what it came down to for me;  both LW and Blender use python, both
have deep UIs (though I find LW a bit more comprehensible) and both have a
big community.

So I went LW due to the UI, program and format support, etc..

> like it or not, povray is an ancient codebase geared at tech-heads with some
> artistic urges and little else.  As it is, we're lucky that there's an
> integrated povray exporter in Blender.  though with cycles now being the default
> renderer and a path-tracing at that, I wonder about its true utility...

Pov can be more though, this is what I want to see. O want it to become
faster, more easily supported by other software, and through this have its
user base grow once more.

> just look how far in the past it became:  we are still using usenet to talk
> about it.  how about some whatsapp? :p
> 

I like this forum because of the people. Many of you have been around for
decades, and it is nice to be able to come around and chat with all of the
folks I knew long ago.

Without the people, their friendliness, and their willingness to assist and
share, Pov would never have become what it is.

Half of what makes Pov great is this community in my opinion.

Cheers!

Ian

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Am 17.11.2016 um 01:03 schrieb [GDS|Entropy]:

> I remember when the movie Interstellar came out...whoever wrote that read
> Baxters Ark (of the Flood/Ark duo). They ripped off SO much from it, it was
> embarrassing. I think they must have been a Baxter fan, because there was a
> LOT from his other books like nods to the Xelee sequence and more.

Ripped off? I doubt it. Nods? Sounds more like it. I don't know Baxters
works, but I do know that the movie was teeming with references to "2001
- A Space Odyssey", and those were quite certainly winks and nods.

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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Am 17.11.2016 um 01:03 schrieb [GDS|Entropy]:
> 
>> I remember when the movie Interstellar came out...whoever wrote that read
>> Baxters Ark (of the Flood/Ark duo). They ripped off SO much from it, it was
>> embarrassing. I think they must have been a Baxter fan, because there was a
>> LOT from his other books like nods to the Xelee sequence and more.
> 
> Ripped off? I doubt it. Nods? Sounds more like it. I don't know Baxters
> works, but I do know that the movie was teeming with references to "2001
> - A Space Odyssey", and those were quite certainly winks and nods.
> 
> 

Yup I caught those too. Check out Flood/Ark, you will see what I mean...its
mostly with the technology and some plot points, but there is a clear link
of whatever form it may be. I honestly expected to see Baxter listed in the
credits somewhere. :)

Ian

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Hah!  My two kinds of life experience in re computers:

(1)  If it's a simple operation, and I'm trying to demonstrate it to a 
n00b, It Will Not Under Any Circumstances Work.  The internet will go 
down.  The thingy will overheat.  The doodad will explode.  The dog will 
eat their homework.  Something.

(2)  If some reasonably intelligent person is trying to explain to me 
the silly thing their computer is doing, once I walk into the room, it 
will immediately stop doing it.  It will be fine.  I just tell them that 
I have the magical power to heal computers.

--Sherry Shaw

-- 
#macro T(E,N)sphere{x,.4rotate z*E*60translate y*N pigment{wrinkles scale
.3}finish{ambient 1}}#end#local I=0;#while(I<5)T(I,1)T(1-I,-1)#local I=I+
1;#end camera{location-5*z}plane{z,37 pigment{granite color_map{[.7rgb 0]
[1rgb 1]}}finish{ambient 2}}//                                   TenMoons

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"LanuHum" <Lan### [at] yandexru> wrote:
> [GDS|Entropy] <gdsHYPHENentropyAThotmaolDOTcom> wrote:
> >
> > My ideal UI would be like TrueSpace 3 + Bryce + Houdini.
> > Hell, Houdini is frankly in my opinion perfect. I just cannot afford it,
> > though there is a free version and a cheap version I like to own full
> > versions, so Lightwave haha!
> >
> > Ian
>
> You can not afford to Houdini?
> I can afford to Houdini.
> I do not like Windows. The interface Windows is much scarier than Blender GUI.
> Some people can not afford the Windows!
> Povray - cross-platform application and Blender - cross-platform application.
> They can use a child from a poor family, if it finds a landfill discarded
> computer. He installs Linux, Blender, Povray and may find its purpose
> Do not forget about it!
> Talented people are not all rich.

Yes, a beautiful idea worth reminding ! thanks

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