"Bill DeWitt" <bde### [at] cflrrcom> wrote in message
news:3c601e9a$1@news.povray.org...
>
>     Ergonomically?!?! I have a -much- better posture and can read for
> a -much- longer time when I set up here to read something as compared to a
> book. Books require odd positioning, props and pillows, arms that fall
> asleep, weird lights that hang off the bedposts on little cranes....
>

Well, "ergonomically" was really the wrong word - about the only place I never
read a book is in front of the computer (except for IT reference). I guess
reading a book on something like a Palm might be okay, but I think I'd miss the
tactile quality of a paperback. Bottom line, most places I read books are not
really suitable, in terms of comfort or convenience, for a monitor.

>     Give me a large screen and an arm rest anytime.
>
>     O course, my lovely wife hates it when I bring the large screen to bed
> with me so I won't be going full e-book any time soon.
>

Doesn't the 'orrible one mind? ;)

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"Tom Melly" <tom### [at] tomandlucouk> wrote :
>
> but I think I'd miss the
> tactile quality of a paperback.

    I think we all agree on that. But as I said, there are advantages once
you get used to the lack of that quality that make up for the loss in many
cases.

> Doesn't the 'orrible one mind? ;)

    Um... do you mean the cat? She really misses trying to mark the edge of
my book and attempting to lay on it while I read it. Like I said, we all
agree that the tactile quality is important.

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"Mitchell Waite" <mit### [at] dnaicom> wrote in message
news:3c5c1a60$1@news.povray.org...
> Question for this group. How do you feel about a book in a PDF format and

While others have covered this topic, I still feel uncomfortable about this.
PDF's are just too easy to 'share'. Yes, people can scan real books too, but
IMO giving someone a book in electronic form just makes it too easy.

> how do you feel about buying eBooks vs paper based books. Check out

As others have pointed out, most folk don't like reading electronic books in
front of a monitor. I've even gone to the trouble of getting the duplexer
attachment for my inkjet so I can easily print out technical documents I get
sent from time to time. It's horribly slow but at least works.

Most folks would want to get a hard-copy, but to do that well, at home, is
difficult for any book of reasonable size (at least, if you want to duplex
it).

Personally I have my doubts about putting commercial POV-Ray books in eBook
form. The docs are free and do a reasonable job (at least in my opinion) and
already occupy that niche.

-- Chris

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> > how do you feel about buying eBooks vs paper based books. Check out
>
> As others have pointed out, most folk don't like reading electronic books
in
> front of a monitor. I've even gone to the trouble of getting the duplexer
> attachment for my inkjet so I can easily print out technical documents I
get
> sent from time to time. It's horribly slow but at least works.

yeah, a mass of dense text on a screen is very hard to read, OTOH ebooks on
a palm pilot are very readable (mono lcd).


--

Rick

Kitty5 WebDesign - http://Kitty5.com
POV-Ray News & Resources - http://Povray.co.uk
TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - FAX : +44 (01270) 251105 - ICQ : 15776037

PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA

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"Rick [Kitty5]" <ric### [at] kitty5com> wrote :
>
> yeah, a mass of dense text on a screen is very hard to read, OTOH ebooks
on
> a palm pilot are very readable (mono lcd).

    That's why I use a big font. I bump it up until there are about 20 lines
on the screen. Not because I am old and need the larger print (well, not
only), but because it makes the "dense" problem go away...

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On Sat, 9 Feb 2002 18:54:35 -0500, Bill DeWitt wrote:
> only), but because it makes the "dense" problem go away...

I thought you actually had to read it to make that problem go away.

-- 
plane{-z,-3normal{crackle scale.2#local a=5;#while(a)warp{repeat x flip x}rotate
z*60#local a=a-1;#end translate-9*x}pigment{rgb 1}}light_source{-9red 1rotate 60
*z}light_source{-9rgb y rotate-z*60}light_source{9-z*18rgb z}text{ttf"arial.ttf"
"RP".01,0translate-<.6,.4,.02>pigment{bozo}}light_source{-z*3rgb-.2}//Ron Parker

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"Ron Parker" <ron### [at] povrayorg> wrote in message
news:slr### [at] fwicom...
> On Sat, 9 Feb 2002 18:54:35 -0500, Bill DeWitt wrote:
> > only), but because it makes the "dense" problem go away...
>
> I thought you actually had to read it to make that problem go away.


    Still selling shots, now 25 for a nickel!

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http://slashdot.org/articles/02/02/13/1724216.shtml?tid=99

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Ron Parker wrote:
>On Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:00:13 -0800, Mitchell Waite wrote:
>- PDF is nice, but it needs lots of things that some people producing PDF
>  seem to forget:
>
>  o There needs to be *at least* a table of contents in bookmark form.

Writing with LaTeX goes a long way to this goal, and does it better than
Adobe's acrobat in most cases.

>  o Page thumbnails are virtually useless, but should be included anyway just
>    so it looks like you care.

Don't know about that with LaTeX

>  o The "real" table of contents, if the book is also provided in paper format
>    with such a table of contents, should consist of hyperlinks.  This is
>    especially important if you didn't go to the trouble to provide one in
>    the PDF file.

I think there is an add-in library for LaTeX to do this.

>  o The index, if there is one, should also contain hyperlinks for the page
>    numbers, see alsos, and so on.

Refrencing is what LaTeX does best.

>  o If sample code is included, it should either be possible to select it
>    and copy it directly from the PDF document, or there should be a hyperlink
>    to a text file containing the sample code.  This should apply whenever
>    the sample is more than 2-3 lines long, and possibly even more often.

There's a button in acrobat reader with an ibar next to a T. You click that
and you can drag and copy text out.

>  o The document should be text, not scanned pages.  This makes it usable
>    with accessibility aids (that's a plug for my employer) as well as making
>    it more usable with things like the PDF reader for PalmOS.  It also means
>    you can zoom in without losing detail (if you want an example of how not
>    to do this, get a copy of the original Dr. Dobbs' Essential Books on
>    Graphics.)  Related to this, the document should be searchable.

Of course, you can compile your document into different formats with LaTeX

>  o If lots of images are supplied, a separate "images index" wouldn't be a
>    bad idea.  Something like a contact sheet, with hyperlinks to the full-
>    sized versions of the images in the document.

I have a document that references all the tables this way. It was pretty
simple to build references. It even numbers figures for you.

It may be a pain in the butt to set everything up, but once you are running
with latex, you'll wonder why you use such meddling software like word and
acrobat.

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On Thu,  8 Aug 2002 15:32:04 EDT, Eli Sarver wrote:
> Ron Parker wrote:
>>  o If sample code is included, it should either be possible to select it
>>    and copy it directly from the PDF document, or there should be a hyperlink
>>    to a text file containing the sample code.  This should apply whenever
>>    the sample is more than 2-3 lines long, and possibly even more often.
> 
> There's a button in acrobat reader with an ibar next to a T. You click that
> and you can drag and copy text out.

And it even works, if you didn't enable the security features of Acrobat or
use formatting that was just a little too wonky (columns, sidebars, tables,
etc.)  That was the point I was trying to make there.

> It may be a pain in the butt to set everything up, but once you are running
> with latex, you'll wonder why you use such meddling software like word and
> acrobat.

I actually used TeX, and later AMS-TeX, to do all of my homework assignments
when I was still a lowly undergraduate.  LaTeX always seemed like too much
extra sugar.  However, it takes a special kind of person to like writing in
either of them.  

Anyway, you seem to have missed my point, which was that if one is going to 
distribute a technical document in PDF, one should keep those rules in mind.  
I wasn't addressing the issue of what tools one might use to generate said 
PDF file, or whether generating it was a good idea in the first place.  The
scary part is that all of those rules come from real-life experience with
very badly done PDF files.

-- 
#local R=<7084844682857967,0787982,826975826580>;#macro L(P)concat(#while(P)chr(
mod(P,100)),#local P=P/100;#end"")#end background{rgb 1}text{ttf L(R.x)L(R.y)0,0
translate<-.8,0,-1>}text{ttf L(R.x)L(R.z)0,0translate<-1.6,-.75,-1>}sphere{z/9e3
4/26/2001finish{reflection 1}}//ron.parker@povray.org My opinions, nobody else's

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