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From: Sven Littkowski
Subject: Re: Cloud Surface
Date: 27 Nov 2017 12:37:34
Message: <5a1c4d5e$1@news.povray.org>
On 27.11.2017 11:23, clipka wrote:
> What version of POV-Ray are you using?
> As mentioned earlier, media math has had some kinks ironed out
> comparatively recently (read: after v3.7.0).

I use the latest version, v3.7.


---

http://www.avg.com


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From: Sven Littkowski
Subject: Re: Cloud Surface
Date: 27 Nov 2017 12:41:08
Message: <5a1c4e34@news.povray.org>
On 27.11.2017 07:20, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> It depends of what you want. If it is a fading away of the clouds
> towards the edge, you would need a cloud media using density
> {cylindrical etc} to get the proper effect, in addition to the clouds
> proper. Not entirely trivial to do, although I think it possible. I
> shall try later when I get some time. Somewhat easier would be, I guess,
> hiding the edge in a more opaque mist (also with cylindrical) but then
> as an atmospheric effect. You know that you can layer media like you can
> layer textures?

Hi, thanks for your answer. I need both effects: fading cloud edges
(density), and the distant fog that makes the cloud object disappearing
at the horizon (please see the attached example image). It is actually
that example scene, that triggered my decision to do something like that
with POV-Ray. :-)



---

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Attachments:
Download 'cloud city.jpg' (50 KB)

Preview of image 'cloud city.jpg'
cloud city.jpg


 

From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Cloud Surface
Date: 27 Nov 2017 12:57:48
Message: <5a1c521c@news.povray.org>
On 27/11/2017 17:31, Sven Littkowski wrote:
> On 27.11.2017 11:23, Stephen wrote:

>>
>> But the project reminds me of an animation I made in 2009. The cloud in
>> this short scene is just blobs with a scattering media to hide the MoCap
>> feet slippage.
>> https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=djv_LIL4TXQ
> 
> "No video found"   :-)
> 

Sorry that was the edit page.

https://youtu.be/djv_LIL4TXQ

>> Insistently Sven, you may find this video is of local interest. I was
>> working in Kingston when I discovered Pov-Ray. This is the first
>> animation I ever made. The size and quality are not good as it was made
>> on a laptop and converted from a flv, The rendering took a whole 24
>> hours and it is cyclic and should be looped. It brought back good memories.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-OPfs25aRM
> 
> This video was found, it shows beer bottles. :-D
> 

And the type of beer bottles are?

I could murder a policeman.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Cloud Surface
Date: 27 Nov 2017 13:06:27
Message: <5a1c5423$1@news.povray.org>
Am 27.11.2017 um 18:37 schrieb Sven Littkowski:
> On 27.11.2017 11:23, clipka wrote:
>> What version of POV-Ray are you using?
>> As mentioned earlier, media math has had some kinks ironed out
>> comparatively recently (read: after v3.7.0).
> 
> I use the latest version, v3.7.

Presuming you mean v3.7.0 -- that's not the latest version. That's just
the latest /stable/ version.

The latest version is v3.8.0-alpha.9387404.


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From: Sven Littkowski
Subject: Re: Cloud Surface
Date: 27 Nov 2017 13:12:27
Message: <5a1c558b$1@news.povray.org>
On 27.11.2017 13:06, clipka wrote:
> Am 27.11.2017 um 18:37 schrieb Sven Littkowski:
>> On 27.11.2017 11:23, clipka wrote:
>>> What version of POV-Ray are you using?
>>> As mentioned earlier, media math has had some kinks ironed out
>>> comparatively recently (read: after v3.7.0).
>>
>> I use the latest version, v3.7.
> 
> Presuming you mean v3.7.0 -- that's not the latest version. That's just
> the latest /stable/ version.
> 
> The latest version is v3.8.0-alpha.9387404.
> 
But not available on the Pov-Ray website. I heard, for now it is only
available at GitHub. I would like a lot to download the 3.8 Windows
version. Any direct URL for it?

---

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From: Sven Littkowski
Subject: Re: Cloud Surface
Date: 27 Nov 2017 13:20:32
Message: <5a1c5770$1@news.povray.org>
On 27.11.2017 12:57, Stephen wrote:
> Sorry that was the edit page.
> https://youtu.be/djv_LIL4TXQ

Cool!

> And the type of beer bottles are?
> I could murder a policeman.

Oh yes, indeed. :-D
Jamaican Red Stripe!

---

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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Cloud Surface
Date: 27 Nov 2017 14:52:33
Message: <5a1c6d01$1@news.povray.org>
Am 27.11.2017 um 19:12 schrieb Sven Littkowski:

>> The latest version is v3.8.0-alpha.9387404.
>>
> But not available on the Pov-Ray website. I heard, for now it is only
> available at GitHub. I would like a lot to download the 3.8 Windows
> version. Any direct URL for it?

"Available at GitHub" doesn't mean "only available as source code", as
GitHub is more than just a place for Git source code repositories.

For instance, we also make use of GitHub's "issues" feature, to track
bug reports -- and, more to the point, we also make use of GitHub's
"releases" fature, to put up binaries for release.

There, you can find Windows builds for various post-v3.7.0 releases,
including the aforementioned v3.8.0-alpha version:

https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/releases/tag/v3.8.0-alpha.9387404

For a list of all releases (starting from v3.7.0.0), see:

https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/releases


Why do we not put up all binaries on our website? Multiple reasons. But
in a nutshell, they all boil down to the fact that it is a piece of cake
to automate releases on GitHub (as long as they're binary-only, at any
rate). Theoretically, we could have Windows binaries automatically built
and published on GitHub for each and every source code version pushed,
without so much as lifting a finger.

In practice, we limit that automation to specific branches, and require
that a human manually authorize publication of the release, giving them
an opportunity to amend the release notes along the way if deemed
necessary (or reject the release entirely).

Also, the automated build process is currently set up to generate
binary-only releases, which need to be dropped into an existing
installation. We may or may not change that in the future.


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From: omniverse
Subject: Re: Cloud Surface
Date: 27 Nov 2017 17:15:00
Message: <web.5a1c8d859a2a53c19c5d6c810@news.povray.org>
Sven Littkowski <I### [at] SvenLittkowskiname> wrote:
> On 27.11.2017 07:20, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> > It depends of what you want. If it is a fading away of the clouds
> > towards the edge, you would need a cloud media using density
> > {cylindrical etc} to get the proper effect, in addition to the clouds
> > proper. Not entirely trivial to do, although I think it possible. I
> > shall try later when I get some time. Somewhat easier would be, I guess,
> > hiding the edge in a more opaque mist (also with cylindrical) but then
> > as an atmospheric effect. You know that you can layer media like you can
> > layer textures?
>
> Hi, thanks for your answer. I need both effects: fading cloud edges
> (density), and the distant fog that makes the cloud object disappearing
> at the horizon (please see the attached example image). It is actually
> that example scene, that triggered my decision to do something like that
> with POV-Ray. :-)

I used Thomas' scene to modify (maybe hack is the word) and had much trouble
with transparency of the media, especially when objects within it are backlit or
in shadow.

I finally got a result similar to the photo, but it took some serious trial and
error to get the colors. And I tried various extinction values, to name one
example. Just look at all the media color vectors and you will see what I mean.

I also used radiosity with it too, so I added sphere for ground. I had to widen
that to meet horizon edge better than simply have a shell of
cloud/fog/atmosphere, and sky disc of blue-white to try and make those cloud
colors interact with radiosity. Which was due to the reddened atmosphere,
otherwise it turned very yellow.

There was strange stuff about the atmosphere y-axis scale when changing index
values, but I shouldn't go into all that here. Just be forewarned that using
other index values might alter the haze layer (orange-yellow portion) in weird
ways. You will also notice I turned the media into spherical warps, and rotated
the atmosphere in attempt to get haze layer out of near distance.

Like I said, it's more a hack rather than modified with certainty of outcome.

I might be forgetting things, I was changing almost every aspect but luckily
Thomas got me to the starting point well enough. Scene follows:


//thomas de groot

//modified, bob

//cmd:+am2 +a0.1

//-------------------------------------------------------------
#version 3.8;

global_settings {
   assumed_gamma 1.4
   radiosity {media on}
}

#default {
  finish { ambient 0.0 diffuse 1.0 }
}

//------------------------------------------------------------------------
#include "colors.inc"
#include "textures.inc"
#include "glass.inc"
#include "metals.inc"
#include "golds.inc"
//------------------------------------------------------------------------

camera {
   /*ultra_wide_angle*/ //angle 20
   location  < -35.0 , 11.0 , 0.0 >
   //right     x*image_width/image_height // not needed for v3.8
   look_at   < 0.0 , 5.0 , 0.0 >
}

// sun -------------------------------------------------------------------
light_source {
   -z*9999//< 50, 100, -250 >*10e4
   color 1//< 1.0,  0.62353,  0.46667 >*2
   rotate <20,240,0> // altitude, azimuth, tilt
}

// sky -------------------------------------------------------------------
background { color rgb 0 }
/*
sky_sphere {
   pigment {
     gradient < 0, 1, 0 >
     color_map {
       [ 0.0 color rgb < 1.00000,  0.62353,  0.46667 > ] // Pink
       [ 0.4 color rgb < 0.64706,  0.30588,  0.59608 > ] // Purple
       [ 0.6 color rgb < 0.64706,  0.30588,  0.59608 > ] // Purple
       [ 1.0 color rgb < 1.00000,  0.62353,  0.46667 > ] // Pink
     }
     scale 2
   }
}
*/
disc {0,y,1,0 hollow on no_shadow pigment {rgb <0.5,0.75,1>} scale 100 translate
y*100}
/*
// ground -----------------------------------------------------------------
disc {
  < 0, 1, 0 >, 0, 50
  texture { pigment { color rgb < 0.24706,  0.38431,  0.058824 > *1.0 }
  finish {diffuse 1.0 } }
  rotate< 0, 0, 0 >
}
*/
sphere {
 0,1
 pigment {color rgb 1}
 scale <555,497,555>
 translate -y*494
}

//--------------------------------------------------------------------------
//---------------------------- objects in scene ----------------------------
#local Scale = 5;

#declare Clouds=
       density {
         ripples   // controls the cloud formation
         color_map {
           [0.33 rgb 10]
           [0.67 rgb 100]
         }
         scale <3, 1, 10>*0.5
         warp {turbulence <2.5, 1.0, 1.6>}
         rotate 45*y
       }

//cloud layer:
//cylinder {
//   < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > < 0.0, 0.45, 0.0 > 10.0
sphere {
 0, 1
   pigment {rgbt 1}
   hollow
   interior {
     media {
       samples 20
       absorption <3, 4, 0.5>*1/(Scale*100)
       emission <1.0, 1.0, 1.0>*0.5/(Scale*100)
       scattering {1, <0.5, 0.75, 1.5>*3/(Scale*100) extinction 0.5}//
eccentricity 0.2}
       density {
        spherical
        density_map {
         [0 rgb 0.0]
         [0.001 Clouds scale 1/100]
        }
       }
     }
     /*
     media {
       samples 33
       absorption <1.0, 1.0, 1.0>*10/(Scale*100)
      // emission <1.0, 1.0, 1.0>*0.1/(Scale*100)
       scattering {5, <1, 1, 1>*1.5/(Scale*100) extinction 1.0 eccentricity 0.2}
       density {
        spherical
        density_map {
         [0 rgb 0.0]
         [0.001 Clouds scale 1/100]
        }
       }
     }
     */
   }
   scale Scale*100
   translate -y*494
   //translate <0, 1, 0>
}

//-------------------------------------------------------------
//atmosphere:
sphere {
   <0.0, 0.0, 0.0 >, 1.0//10
   pigment {rgbt 1}
   hollow
   interior {
     media {
      samples 20
      absorption 0.5
       scattering {5, <1.25, 1, 1.5,>*2/Scale extinction 0.67 eccentricity 0.2}
       density {
         gradient y
         color_map {
           [0.00 rgb 1]  //base ground fog
           [0.1 rgb <9,0.3,0.1>]  //top ground fog
           [0.3 rgb <0.9,0.3,0.1>]  //top ground fog
           [0.5 rgb <0.5,0.1,0.09>*0.1] //base atmospheric haze
           [0.67 rgb <0.1,0.2,0.9>*0.1] //top atmospheric haze
           [1.00 rgb <0.1,0.3,0.9>*0.001] //top atmospheric haze
         }
         rotate -x*15
         warp {spherical}
         scale Scale*2*y
       }
     }
   }
   //scale Scale
   scale Scale*111
   translate -y*535
}
/*
//-------------------------------------------------------------
//artefact:
union {
   cylinder {< 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > < 0.0, 8.0, 0.0 > 0.25}
   sphere {< 0.0, 8.0, 0.0 > 0.25}
   texture { T01 }
   texture { T_Copper_1A }
}
*/
//-------------------------------------------------------------
// Planet:
union {
   sphere {
     <0.0, 0.0, 0.0> 7.0
   }
   difference {
     cylinder { < 0.0, -0.00001, 0.0 > < 0.0, 0.00001, 0.0 > 20.0 }
     cylinder { < 0.0, -0.00002, 0.0 > < 0.0, 0.00002, 0.0 > 10.0 }
   }
   texture {pigment {color rgb 1}}
   scale 33
   rotate < 20.0, -10.0, 4.0 >
   translate <80.0, -2.0, 13.0>*33
}

//-------------------------------------------------------------
//buildings:
#local S=seed(4132);
union {
#for (It,1,8,1)

#local xR=rand(S);
#local yR=rand(S);
#local zR=rand(S);

#local xR2=rand(S);
#local yR2=rand(S);
#local zR2=rand(S);

box {
 0,1
 scale <1+xR,8+yR*4,1+zR>/2
 pigment {
  checker
  color rgb 0.1 color rgb 0.9 scale 0.5
 }
 translate (-<xR*20,0,zR*20>+<xR2*40,0,zR2*40>)/2
}
#end
 rotate y*90
 translate <-20,2,5>
}


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Attachments:
Download 'test fog cloud.png' (121 KB)

Preview of image 'test fog cloud.png'
test fog cloud.png


 

From: Sven Littkowski
Subject: Re: Cloud Surface
Date: 27 Nov 2017 18:58:31
Message: <5a1ca6a7$1@news.povray.org>
On 27.11.2017 14:52, clipka wrote:
> Am 27.11.2017 um 19:12 schrieb Sven Littkowski:
> 
>>> The latest version is v3.8.0-alpha.9387404.
>>>
>> But not available on the Pov-Ray website. I heard, for now it is only
>> available at GitHub. I would like a lot to download the 3.8 Windows
>> version. Any direct URL for it?
> 
> "Available at GitHub" doesn't mean "only available as source code", as
> GitHub is more than just a place for Git source code repositories.
> 
> For instance, we also make use of GitHub's "issues" feature, to track
> bug reports -- and, more to the point, we also make use of GitHub's
> "releases" fature, to put up binaries for release.
> 
> There, you can find Windows builds for various post-v3.7.0 releases,
> including the aforementioned v3.8.0-alpha version:
> 
> https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/releases/tag/v3.8.0-alpha.9387404
> 
> For a list of all releases (starting from v3.7.0.0), see:
> 
> https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/releases
> 
> 
> Why do we not put up all binaries on our website? Multiple reasons. But
> in a nutshell, they all boil down to the fact that it is a piece of cake
> to automate releases on GitHub (as long as they're binary-only, at any
> rate). Theoretically, we could have Windows binaries automatically built
> and published on GitHub for each and every source code version pushed,
> without so much as lifting a finger.
> 
> In practice, we limit that automation to specific branches, and require
> that a human manually authorize publication of the release, giving them
> an opportunity to amend the release notes along the way if deemed
> necessary (or reject the release entirely).
> 
> Also, the automated build process is currently set up to generate
> binary-only releases, which need to be dropped into an existing
> installation. We may or may not change that in the future.
> 

Thanks a lot for the detailed introduction, well appreciated. :-)

---

http://www.avg.com


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From: Alain
Subject: Re: Cloud Surface
Date: 27 Nov 2017 18:59:37
Message: <5a1ca6e9$1@news.povray.org>

> This is how it looks without scattering and emission. :-)
> 
> Both seem to be required for correct colors. But look to the lowest
> posting in this thread, that is an update and I try out an isosurface there.
> 
> My need now is, instead of fog, a media that can give me what I need.
> See the 2nd attached image, it shows the different atmospheric layers I
> need:
> - ground fog just reaching above clouds
> - orange distant layer, hiding the edges of my clouds
> 
> http://wiki.povray.org/content/Documentation:Tutorial_Section_3.6
> 
> 
> ---

> http://www.avg.com
> 

You have only absorption. You need scattering, NO emission and probably 
no absorption.

Scattering media interact with light and get illuminated by it. It can 
show, and cast, shadows. In a radiosity scene with "media on", it can 
illuminate it's surrounding from the light it scatters. It can show 
against any background. Think of a cloud, turbid water, dust in 
suspension in the air,...

Emissive media don't interact with lights and is self illuminated. In a 
radiosity scene, it can illuminate it's surrounding if you use "media 
on" in your radiosity block. Visible against darker background. Think of 
a plasma.

Absorbing media cause shadow and can hide the parts of the scene behind 
it. It is never illuminated by any lights. Visible against lighter 
backgrounds. Think of dark smoke loaded with carbon particles.


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