Am 24.02.2019 um 20:43 schrieb MichaelJF:
> Am 23.02.2019 um 10:12 schrieb Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann:
>> Hi(gh)!
>>
>> On 22.02.19 20:04, MichaelJF wrote:
>>> Hi to the crowd,
>>>
>>> this image has still a lot of flaws (sun colour and reflections, the 
>>> swan model itself, textures of the cattails) and may be limitations 
>>> to media by POV. media seems to be handling color_maps or 
>>> density_maps different than pigment or texture having no 
>>> interpolation between the map entries but shap edges. This is what I 
>>> derived in a first attempt. Rendering time was a little bit longer (3 
>>> weeks).
>>
>> Just my mustard ;-):
>>
>> The rising fog should be turbulated more, now it looks like small 
>> straight columns of mist... and what about using Chris Colefax's 
>> lensflare macro?
>>
>> See you in Khyberspace!
>>
>> Yadgar
> Hi Yagdar,
> the rising turbulence is just my problem (see the code I posted some 
> minutes earlier). I cannot see a reason to add lens flare to the image. 
> Especially since we have no conversion of the lens flare macros by chris 
> colefax to POV 3.7. They did not work with 3.7 so far. I played around 
> with them to solve this issue a while ago, but failed unfortunatelly.
> 
> Best regards
> Michael
After looking at a lot of photographies of sundowns and sunrises again I 
now understand your recommendation of the lens flare macros. But they 
are still resistant to my conversion efforts. To chance ambient by 
emission simply doesn't work here. If you study his disc approach it 
should work, but there seems to be a hidden secret I have not detected 
so far. With Jaime's lightsys this simple exchange works.

Best regards
Michael

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Am 22.02.2019 um 20:04 schrieb MichaelJF:
> Hi to the crowd,
> 
> this image has still a lot of flaws (sun colour and reflections, the 
> swan model itself, textures of the cattails) and may be limitations to 
> media by POV. media seems to be handling color_maps or density_maps 
> different than pigment or texture having no interpolation between the 
> map entries but shap edges. This is what I derived in a first attempt. 
> Rendering time was a little bit longer (3 weeks).
> 
> Best regards
> Michael
> 
Hi to the crowd again,

since I lost all the code of the original approach of this image due to 
a headcrash, I had to restart this scene from scratch. Only the 
erroneous density I posted here was left and the corrections Thomas and 
Alain proposed of course. Here is the actual WIP. I wondered how a white 
sun can cast yellow beams, but I took this RL image

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonnenaufgang#/media/Datei:Sonnenaufgang_penon_de_ifach.jpg

as a basis for the sky_sphere, the sun, and its reflections. I failed to 
model this thin slice of white in the reflections in the original 
photography so far. But I think to "forget" it, is a venial sin.

I plan to add some pines, cattails, gras, broom, and the swan of course, 
but nothing more. The steam fog over land will be invisible after the 
addition of the plants (hope so). Additional suggestions are welcome as 
ever.

At the moment the rendering time is manageable: some hour with 16 
threads at 3.6 GHz (intel core i9).

Best regards
Michael

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MichaelJF <mi-### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:
> I failed to
> model this thin slice of white in the reflections in the original
> photography so far. But I think to "forget" it, is a venial sin.

Maybe you can add a cylinder of media that is bisected by the water's surface?
Or layer an AOI texture onto the water?

Other than that, I'd look to prior art in the archives, or in other graphics
groups...

Great job so far!   :)

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Op 16/08/2020 om 18:27 schreef Bald Eagle:
> MichaelJF <mi-### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:
>> I failed to
>> model this thin slice of white in the reflections in the original
>> photography so far. But I think to "forget" it, is a venial sin.
> 
> Maybe you can add a cylinder of media that is bisected by the water's surface?
> Or layer an AOI texture onto the water?
> 
> Other than that, I'd look to prior art in the archives, or in other graphics
> groups...
> 
> Great job so far!   :)
> 
> 
> 

Great job indeed. First thing I thought concerning this issue was: Tom 
York's diffuse modulation. Maybe it can help you: see his comment in the 
following thread:

http://news.povray.org/povray.newusers/thread/%3Cweb.4393311ed86e519e4114da700@news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=338362&toff=650

-- 
Thomas

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Am 17.08.2020 um 08:45 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
> Op 16/08/2020 om 18:27 schreef Bald Eagle:
>> MichaelJF <mi-### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:
>>> I failed to
>>> model this thin slice of white in the reflections in the original
>>> photography so far. But I think to "forget" it, is a venial sin.
>>
>> Maybe you can add a cylinder of media that is bisected by the water's 
>> surface?
>> Or layer an AOI texture onto the water?
>>
>> Other than that, I'd look to prior art in the archives, or in other 
>> graphics
>> groups...
>>

>>
>>
>>
> 
> Great job indeed. First thing I thought concerning this issue was: Tom 
> York's diffuse modulation. Maybe it can help you: see his comment in the 
> following thread:
> 
>
http://news.povray.org/povray.newusers/thread/%3Cweb.4393311ed86e519e4114da700@news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=338362&toff=650

> 
> 
Thank you both for your suggestions. May be the addition of an other 
media may cure the problem but I had a lot of difficulties to adjust the 
media as they are so far and will not risk to disturb them by another 
one. The other approach proposed by Thomas is the use of a texture_map 
to the lake similiar to the construction of my sky_sphere. Fortunatelly 
air has no ripples or waves and is more predictable as water. May be I 
must have more patience in modellng a filtering disc with a proper 
scaled hole

disc {
    0,z,20000, unkown hole size
    pigment { colour srgbf <1,0.847,0.333,1> }
    rotate <0,0,-90-degrees(acos(vnormalize(SolarPosition).z))>
    translate SolarPosition/10000
    no_image no_reflection
}

Best regards
Michael

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Op 17/08/2020 om 19:11 schreef MichaelJF:
> Am 17.08.2020 um 08:45 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>> Op 16/08/2020 om 18:27 schreef Bald Eagle:
>>> MichaelJF <mi-### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:
>>>> I failed to
>>>> model this thin slice of white in the reflections in the original
>>>> photography so far. But I think to "forget" it, is a venial sin.
>>>
>>> Maybe you can add a cylinder of media that is bisected by the water's 
>>> surface?
>>> Or layer an AOI texture onto the water?
>>>
>>> Other than that, I'd look to prior art in the archives, or in other 
>>> graphics
>>> groups...
>>>

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Great job indeed. First thing I thought concerning this issue was: Tom 
>> York's diffuse modulation. Maybe it can help you: see his comment in 
>> the following thread:
>>
>>
http://news.povray.org/povray.newusers/thread/%3Cweb.4393311ed86e519e4114da700@news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=338362&toff=650

>>
>>
> Thank you both for your suggestions. May be the addition of an other 
> media may cure the problem but I had a lot of difficulties to adjust the 
> media as they are so far and will not risk to disturb them by another 
> one. The other approach proposed by Thomas is the use of a texture_map 
> to the lake similiar to the construction of my sky_sphere. Fortunatelly 
> air has no ripples or waves and is more predictable as water. May be I 
> must have more patience in modellng a filtering disc with a proper 
> scaled hole
> 
> disc {





> }
> 
> Best regards
> Michael
> 

Best approach I guess is the one made by Jaime Vives Piqueres. I have 
been working with his code lately for a couple of months (adding foam to 
sea water for instance; see my 'Nature Beyond' thread).

See the following link for the technical aspects:

http://www.ignorancia.org/index.php/galleries/old-images/sea-buoy/

-- 
Thomas

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> Thank you both for your suggestions. May be the addition of an other 
> media may cure the problem but I had a lot of difficulties to adjust the 
> media as they are so far and will not risk to disturb them by another 
> one. The other approach proposed by Thomas is the use of a texture_map 
> to the lake similiar to the construction of my sky_sphere. Fortunatelly 
> air has no ripples or waves and is more predictable as water. May be I 
> must have more patience in modellng a filtering disc with a proper 
> scaled hole
> 
> disc {





> }
> 
> Best regards
> Michael
> 

When working with disc, don't forget that they have an interior that is 
not limited to the visible part.
Whenever you have media, you need to add hollow to any disc in the scene.

This :
disc{0 y 10}
have the same interior as this :
plane{y 0}

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Am 18.08.2020 um 19:46 schrieb Alain Martel:

> 
>> Thank you both for your suggestions. May be the addition of an other 
>> media may cure the problem but I had a lot of difficulties to adjust 
>> the media as they are so far and will not risk to disturb them by 
>> another one. The other approach proposed by Thomas is the use of a 
>> texture_map to the lake similiar to the construction of my sky_sphere. 
>> Fortunatelly air has no ripples or waves and is more predictable as 
>> water. May be I must have more patience in modellng a filtering disc 
>> with a proper scaled hole
>>
>> disc {





>> }
>>
>> Best regards
>> Michael
>>
> 
> When working with disc, don't forget that they have an interior that is 
> not limited to the visible part.
> Whenever you have media, you need to add hollow to any disc in the scene.
> 
> This :
> disc{0 y 10}
> have the same interior as this :
> plane{y 0}
Many thanks,
yes I tested the approach with the disk without the media. I added the 
media later.

Best regards
Michael

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Am 18.08.2020 um 09:15 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
> Op 17/08/2020 om 19:11 schreef MichaelJF:
>> Am 17.08.2020 um 08:45 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>>> Op 16/08/2020 om 18:27 schreef Bald Eagle:
>>>> MichaelJF <mi-### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:
>>>>> I failed to
>>>>> model this thin slice of white in the reflections in the original
>>>>> photography so far. But I think to "forget" it, is a venial sin.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you can add a cylinder of media that is bisected by the 
>>>> water's surface?
>>>> Or layer an AOI texture onto the water?
>>>>
>>>> Other than that, I'd look to prior art in the archives, or in other 
>>>> graphics
>>>> groups...
>>>>

>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Great job indeed. First thing I thought concerning this issue was: 
>>> Tom York's diffuse modulation. Maybe it can help you: see his comment 
>>> in the following thread:
>>>
>>>
http://news.povray.org/povray.newusers/thread/%3Cweb.4393311ed86e519e4114da700@news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=338362&toff=650

>>>
>>>
>> Thank you both for your suggestions. May be the addition of an other 
>> media may cure the problem but I had a lot of difficulties to adjust 
>> the media as they are so far and will not risk to disturb them by 
>> another one. The other approach proposed by Thomas is the use of a 
>> texture_map to the lake similiar to the construction of my sky_sphere. 
>> Fortunatelly air has no ripples or waves and is more predictable as 
>> water. May be I must have more patience in modellng a filtering disc 
>> with a proper scaled hole
>>
>> disc {





>> }
>>
>> Best regards
>> Michael
>>
> 
> Best approach I guess is the one made by Jaime Vives Piqueres. I have 
> been working with his code lately for a couple of months (adding foam to 
> sea water for instance; see my 'Nature Beyond' thread).
> 
> See the following link for the technical aspects:
> 
> http://www.ignorancia.org/index.php/galleries/old-images/sea-buoy/
> 
Hello Thomas,

you did a very good job in adding foam to Jaime's sea and added a very 
nice whale. First I tried an isosurface similiar to Jaime's approach but 
I decided against it since it looked to much like sea with storms and 
tides and so on and not like a quiet lake.

Best regards
Michael

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Op 18/08/2020 om 20:17 schreef MichaelJF:
> Am 18.08.2020 um 09:15 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>> Op 17/08/2020 om 19:11 schreef MichaelJF:
>>> Am 17.08.2020 um 08:45 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>>>> Op 16/08/2020 om 18:27 schreef Bald Eagle:
>>>>> MichaelJF <mi-### [at] t-onlinede> wrote:
>>>>>> I failed to
>>>>>> model this thin slice of white in the reflections in the original
>>>>>> photography so far. But I think to "forget" it, is a venial sin.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you can add a cylinder of media that is bisected by the 
>>>>> water's surface?
>>>>> Or layer an AOI texture onto the water?
>>>>>
>>>>> Other than that, I'd look to prior art in the archives, or in other 
>>>>> graphics
>>>>> groups...
>>>>>

>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Great job indeed. First thing I thought concerning this issue was: 
>>>> Tom York's diffuse modulation. Maybe it can help you: see his 
>>>> comment in the following thread:
>>>>
>>>>
http://news.povray.org/povray.newusers/thread/%3Cweb.4393311ed86e519e4114da700@news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=338362&toff=650

>>>>
>>>>
>>> Thank you both for your suggestions. May be the addition of an other 
>>> media may cure the problem but I had a lot of difficulties to adjust 
>>> the media as they are so far and will not risk to disturb them by 
>>> another one. The other approach proposed by Thomas is the use of a 
>>> texture_map to the lake similiar to the construction of my 
>>> sky_sphere. Fortunatelly air has no ripples or waves and is more 
>>> predictable as water. May be I must have more patience in modellng a 
>>> filtering disc with a proper scaled hole
>>>
>>> disc {





>>> }
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Michael
>>>
>>
>> Best approach I guess is the one made by Jaime Vives Piqueres. I have 
>> been working with his code lately for a couple of months (adding foam 
>> to sea water for instance; see my 'Nature Beyond' thread).
>>
>> See the following link for the technical aspects:
>>
>> http://www.ignorancia.org/index.php/galleries/old-images/sea-buoy/
>>
> Hello Thomas,
> 
> you did a very good job in adding foam to Jaime's sea and added a very 
> nice whale. First I tried an isosurface similiar to Jaime's approach but 
> I decided against it since it looked to much like sea with storms and 
> tides and so on and not like a quiet lake.
> 

I am beginning to wonder if I understand your problem correctly. It is 
the reflection of the Sun's disk on the water surface, isn't it? If so, 
this is solved very nicely imo by the finish block of the water and the 
finish block only. Jaime uses the following code for his (sea) water 
surface:

   finish { // borrowed from Christoph Hormann
     diffuse 0.5
     reflection {
       0.0, 1.0
       fresnel on
       falloff 1
     }
     conserve_energy
     specular 0.8
     roughness 0.0035
   }

The use of this results in the image attached. My earlier suggestion 
about Tom York's diffuse modulation works well on opaque surfaces. I 
realise now that it would be difficult to implement correctly on a water 
surface.

I am sorry if I confused you with information not entirely up to the point.

-- 
Thomas

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