I discovered that I made a serious error;  the ship as posted before was 
pre-Great Resizing.  For those that do not read the Honorverse, it means 
that the ship was about three times longer than it should have been.

Also, I had made some errors in the design, most notably (as others 
mentioned) in the hammerheads.

Since completely retooling the ship would have been a major headache, I 
instead chucked it and started work on a new one.  This rebuild looks a 
lot better, IMHO.

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Timothy Groves wrote:
> I discovered that I made a serious error;  the ship as posted before was
> pre-Great Resizing.  For those that do not read the Honorverse, it means
> that the ship was about three times longer than it should have been.
> 
> Also, I had made some errors in the design, most notably (as others
> mentioned) in the hammerheads.
> 
> Since completely retooling the ship would have been a major headache, I
> instead chucked it and started work on a new one.  This rebuild looks a
> lot better, IMHO.
> 
	I agree, but the hammerheads still aren't exactly there. I've
attached a picture of my book which shows a schematic of HMS
Minotaur. Of course, it's not exactly the same class of ship so the
scale will be wrong, but the general shape and proportions of the
hammerheads wrt the hull is probably quite similar for all classes.

	Have you put the chase armament in yet? There's supposed to be a
spinal laser and two missile tubes but we can't see them from this
angle.

	Keep up the good work.

		Jerome
- --
+------------------------- Jerome M. BERGER ---------------------+
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> 	I agree, but the hammerheads still aren't exactly there. I've
> attached a picture of my book which shows a schematic of HMS
> Minotaur. Of course, it's not exactly the same class of ship so the
> scale will be wrong, but the general shape and proportions of the
> hammerheads wrt the hull is probably quite similar for all classes.

Thanks for the pic.  I actually already have it from the Baen CD, 
printed out and taped to my wall, along with several others.

I based this attempt on the hammerheads more on the pics of the Reliant 
and the Gryphon, which appear to have more conical hammerheads. 
Manticore is a completely different platform, after all.
> 
> 	Have you put the chase armament in yet? There's supposed to be a
> spinal laser and two missile tubes but we can't see them from this
> angle.
> 

Yes, I have the two 60cm lasers and two missile launcher tubes in place. 
  Since this pic was released, I upgraded the armaments models again. 
The two chaser PD missile tubes were still not in place, and the lower 
half of the broadside was nothing but empty tubes (and the wrong count 
on those, as it turned out).

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Timothy Groves wrote:

>>     I agree, but the hammerheads still aren't exactly there. I've
>> attached a picture of my book which shows a schematic of HMS
>> Minotaur. Of course, it's not exactly the same class of ship so the
>> scale will be wrong, but the general shape and proportions of the
>> hammerheads wrt the hull is probably quite similar for all classes.
> 
> Thanks for the pic.  I actually already have it from the Baen CD,
> printed out and taped to my wall, along with several others.
> 
> I based this attempt on the hammerheads more on the pics of the Reliant
> and the Gryphon, which appear to have more conical hammerheads.
> Manticore is a completely different platform, after all.

	True enough, OTOH the only ships I've seen with truly conical
hammerheads were havenite or andermani. Manticoran hammerheads
appear to be always flattened at least a little.

	BTW, had you seen this pic (unofficial, but nice):
http://harrington.suewebik.net/obrazky/thomas/00027yzs.jpg

		Jerome
- --
+------------------------- Jerome M. BERGER ---------------------+
|    mailto:jeb### [at] freefr      | ICQ:    238062172            |
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> 
> 	True enough, OTOH the only ships I've seen with truly conical
> hammerheads were havenite or andermani. Manticoran hammerheads
> appear to be always flattened at least a little.

These are flattened at top and bottom, but only the center 6 meters, so 
it doesn't really show.
During my spare time today, I came up with an idea to make them a little 
more squared up...I may have a prototype before the end of the day.

> 	BTW, had you seen this pic (unofficial, but nice):
> http://harrington.suewebik.net/obrazky/thomas/00027yzs.jpg

Yes, very nice.  :)

Sadly. the Fearless that I've been working up is still a stock 
Courageous;  no Grav Lance, because I have no bloody idea what it may 
look like.  All I know for sure is that the single weapon may fire to 
either broadside.  Any ideas there?

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Timothy Groves nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/09/09 18:26:
> Jérôme M. Berger wrote:
>>
>>     True enough, OTOH the only ships I've seen with truly conical
>> hammerheads were havenite or andermani. Manticoran hammerheads
>> appear to be always flattened at least a little.
> 
> These are flattened at top and bottom, but only the center 6 meters, so 
> it doesn't really show.
> During my spare time today, I came up with an idea to make them a little 
> more squared up...I may have a prototype before the end of the day.
> 
>>     BTW, had you seen this pic (unofficial, but nice):
>> http://harrington.suewebik.net/obrazky/thomas/00027yzs.jpg
> 
> Yes, very nice.  :)
> 
> Sadly. the Fearless that I've been working up is still a stock 
> Courageous;  no Grav Lance, because I have no bloody idea what it may 
> look like.  All I know for sure is that the single weapon may fire to 
> either broadside.  Any ideas there?
The only two way that I can think of for a single weapon to be able to fire to 
both broadsides, is
1 - for it to be turret mounted on the topside or the underside.
or
2 - Some kind of tube ran across the hull where a missile can be loaded both 
way. It may also be some energy beam weapon that can fire by ether of it's ends.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
You know you've been raytracing too long when you prefer bald romatic partners, 
because they're easier to model.
John VanSickle

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Timothy Groves wrote:
> I discovered that I made a serious error;  the ship as posted before was 
> pre-Great Resizing.  For those that do not read the Honorverse, it means 
> that the ship was about three times longer than it should have been.
> 
> Also, I had made some errors in the design, most notably (as others 
> mentioned) in the hammerheads.
> 
> Since completely retooling the ship would have been a major headache, I 
> instead chucked it and started work on a new one.  This rebuild looks a 
> lot better, IMHO.

Are you aware that this design is seriously phallic in appearance?

Regards,
John

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John VanSickle wrote:

> Are you aware that this design is seriously phallic in appearance?

The point was made rather firmly earlier today.

One of my female coworkers saw the ship (as my wallpaper on my 
terminal), and commented, "Mine is purple and takes D-cells."

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John VanSickle nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/09/10 20:46:
> Timothy Groves wrote:
>> I discovered that I made a serious error;  the ship as posted before 
>> was pre-Great Resizing.  For those that do not read the Honorverse, it 
>> means that the ship was about three times longer than it should have 
>> been.
>>
>> Also, I had made some errors in the design, most notably (as others 
>> mentioned) in the hammerheads.
>>
>> Since completely retooling the ship would have been a major headache, 
>> I instead chucked it and started work on a new one.  This rebuild 
>> looks a lot better, IMHO.
> 
> Are you aware that this design is seriously phallic in appearance?
> 
> Regards,
> John
Anything long and profiled does have a phallic appearance! ANY rocket have this 
atribute, so does a bullet and a snake.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
You know you've been raytracing too long when a co-worker nearly kills himself 
over losing an hour's worth of work after a computer crash, and you just calmly 
shrug your shoulders and say, "Is that all?"
Taps a.k.a. Tapio Vocadlo

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Timothy Groves wrote:

>>     BTW, had you seen this pic (unofficial, but nice):
>> http://harrington.suewebik.net/obrazky/thomas/00027yzs.jpg
> 
> Yes, very nice.  :)
> 
> Sadly. the Fearless that I've been working up is still a stock
> Courageous;  no Grav Lance, because I have no bloody idea what it may
> look like.  All I know for sure is that the single weapon may fire to
> either broadside.  Any ideas there?

	Well, according to the caption, the bottom one is the post-refit
Fearless. Except that apart from the color of some of the hull
plates, I can't really see the difference between the two...

	I have no real idea what it may look like either. I can see three
possibilities, but none is really satisfactory:

 1. It's turret-mounted on the top or bottom or the ship, or maybe
in one of the hammerheads. Problems:
    - Conventional beam weapons are already too big to be mounted
      in turrets. Somehow, I can't see the grav lance as being
      smaller;
    - Neither admiral d'Orvilles at the beginning of the book, nor
      especially the captain of PNS Sirius later on saw anything
      obviously strange about Fearless' appearance. However, a
      turret-mounted weapon should be pretty obvious.

 2. Like Alain said, it crosses the ship from side to side and can
fire from either end. Problems:
    - Such a setup could not be aimed other than by positioning
      the whole ship very precisely. That's completely
      impractical;
    - As an alternative, the weapon could be put inside a very
      large hollow cylinder with some rotation slack allowing it
      to move inside. However, we're back to a highly visible
      change.

 3. Instead of having an actual, physical projector, the weapon
works by inducing some kind of secondary effects from the impeller
nodes. Problems:
    - There's nothing in the book to support such a theory, except
      that later on, other interesting effects were done that way
      (the FTL com comes to mind);
    - By the time Fearless used the grav lance against Sirius, she
      had lost a large part of her drive (in fact, her forward
      impeller ring is half destroyed at that point). Moreover,
      the book explicitly states that the grav lance has burned
      out afterwards, however the drive is still operating enough
      to allow them to get back to Medusa.

	Of course, it could always be suggested that it is fully internal
and that it operates by creating its effect in hyperspace (so that
it doesn't affect the sidewalls of the firing ship). That way, you
won't even need to model it ;)

		Jerome
- --
+------------------------- Jerome M. BERGER ---------------------+
|    mailto:jeb### [at] freefr      | ICQ:    238062172            |
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