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"Reactor" <rea### [at] hotmail com> wrote:
> "Ken Willmott" <ken### [at] rogerscom> wrote:
> > When I removed the crackle function from my main project, all the problems
> > disappeared. Memory remained stable, slightly less than 2.0GB. It will be a
> > painful loss, since it made such beautiful rock surfaces. I guess I will end up
> > using something like bozo+wrinkles instead.
> >
> > It is my impression that virtual memory is useful mostly to make memory
> > management easier, rather than to increase the working memory capacity. It can't
> > work with 100% physical memory allocated because of excessive disk swapping. I
> > think this is a fundamental constraint that is common to all OS, whether it is
> > Windows or Linux or whatever.
>
>
> You mentioned having quite a bit of RAM. Have you tried turning virtual memory
> off and using a RAM disk to see how it does? RAM disks are not difficult to set
> up, and it may be worth the effort.
>
> -Reactor
I see very little disk activity during rendering, basically just the output file
being written to. I really don't think disk I/O is a significant bottleneck, but
it is interesting to consider how I might use it for other applications.
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> > Given that turning virtual memory off is impossible in Windows that
> > seems like an odd suggestion...
>
> Turning virtual memory off in Windows is trivial. I don't think you can turn
> off virtual addressing, but that shouldn't have an impact on this problem.
>
> Control panel->System->Advanced->Performance->Advanced->No page file
>
> Admittedly, it's behind two "advanced" tabs, but the help tells you how to
> get there too if you put "virtual memory" into the search bar of the control
> panel.
>
> --
> Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
> Forget "focus follows mouse." When do
> I get "focus follows gaze"?
Interesting, I had no idea this was possible. Actually though, I believe it is
probably better to leave it alone. It's probably there to allow better real-time
performance for time critical apps.
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On 14.02.10 21:44, Darren New wrote:
> Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
>> Given that turning virtual memory off is impossible in Windows that
>> seems like an odd suggestion...
>
> Turning virtual memory off in Windows is trivial. I don't think you can
> turn off virtual addressing, but that shouldn't have an impact on this
> problem.
>
> Control panel->System->Advanced->Performance->Advanced->No page file
No, that does not turn of virtual memory, it turns of the page file. The
page file is part of the a common virtual memory implementation, but the
most important part is that you have a non-linear physical memory (hence the
"virtual" in "virtual memory"). In effect, disabling the page file simply
means the system cannot move writable memory out to disk. The system still
can move all read-only memory to disk, such as code and static data (i.e.
resources) loaded from application and library files.
Thorsten
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On 14.02.10 22:00, Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> On 14.02.10 21:44, Darren New wrote:
>> Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
>>> Given that turning virtual memory off is impossible in Windows that
>>> seems like an odd suggestion...
>>
>> Turning virtual memory off in Windows is trivial. I don't think you can
>> turn off virtual addressing, but that shouldn't have an impact on this
>> problem.
> >
>> Control panel->System->Advanced->Performance->Advanced->No page file
>
> No, that does not turn of virtual memory, it turns of the page file. The
> page file is part of the a common virtual memory implementation, but the
> most important part is that you have a non-linear physical memory (hence
> the "virtual" in "virtual memory"). In effect, disabling the page file
> simply means the system cannot move writable memory out to disk. The
> system still can move all read-only memory to disk, such as code and
> static data (i.e. resources) loaded from application and library files.
What is even more surprising is that it is even explained on Wikipedia
fairly well, so before this starts some argument I will post the link:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_memory>
Thorsten
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> Turning virtual memory off in Windows is trivial. I don't think you can turn
> off virtual addressing, but that shouldn't have an impact on this problem.
I have experienced this with XP (32bit) and 4Gb ram. The PC ran well for around
4 days and then started crashing on start up. the only way to get it to boot
successfully was to re-enable the virtual memory.
I thought about running a RAM disk but as my PC was failing to boot properly I
assumed that the RAM disk might not initialize early enough to be of use.
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> No, that does not turn of virtual memory, it turns of the page file. The
> page file is part of the a common virtual memory implementation, but the
> most important part is that you have a non-linear physical memory (hence
> the "virtual" in "virtual memory").
That would be the "virtual addressing" of which I was speaking. "Virtual
addresses" don't match real addresses. "Virtual memory" doesn't match real
memory.
> In effect, disabling the page file
> simply means the system cannot move writable memory out to disk. The
> system still can move all read-only memory to disk, such as code and
> static data (i.e. resources) loaded from application and library files.
This is true. And of course the application still has the ability to map
files and use page faults to read and write files. But if you're trying to
limit how much memory a program allocates in order to reduce page thrashing,
turning off the paging file will be sufficient. If you don't have enough
memory to hold POV-Ray's executable code entirely in RAM, chances are you
need more RAM anyway.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Forget "focus follows mouse." When do
I get "focus follows gaze"?
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On 14.02.10 22:36, Darren New wrote:
> Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
>> No, that does not turn of virtual memory, it turns of the page file.
>> The page file is part of the a common virtual memory implementation,
>> but the most important part is that you have a non-linear physical
>> memory (hence the "virtual" in "virtual memory").
>
> That would be the "virtual addressing" of which I was speaking. "Virtual
> addresses" don't match real addresses. "Virtual memory" doesn't match
> real memory.
You have your terminology confused. Read up on the subject in a textbook or
Wikipedia or Google it. All not my problem, so please stop trying to make
your mistake my problem.
Thorsten, POV-Team
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On 14.02.10 22:21, GraemeM wrote:
>> Turning virtual memory off in Windows is trivial. I don't think you can turn
>> off virtual addressing, but that shouldn't have an impact on this problem.
>
> I have experienced this with XP (32bit) and 4Gb ram. The PC ran well for around
> 4 days and then started crashing on start up. the only way to get it to boot
> successfully was to re-enable the virtual memory.
If you turn off your page file, the system has less memory it can assign to
applications. Windows does not handle running out of memory very well. And
again, you turn writing to the page file, you do not turn off virtual memory.
Thorsten
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> Read up on the subject in a textbook or Wikipedia or Google it.
I wasn't going to argue it, but you keep bringing it up. Different people
call it different things. Wikipedia points "virtual addressing" and "virtual
memory" at the same page, and it's quite possible to have either one without
the other, so they've simplified. I don't really care what you call it.
And yes, I've read many a textbook on the topic, so I'll take the textbooks
I read while getting a Ph.D., written by people who actually design modern
CPUs, as more authoritative than Wikipedia, but thanks for playing.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Forget "focus follows mouse." When do
I get "focus follows gaze"?
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On 2/14/2010 1:58 PM, Ken Willmott wrote:
> Darren New<dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
>>> Given that turning virtual memory off is impossible in Windows that
>>> seems like an odd suggestion...
>>
>> Turning virtual memory off in Windows is trivial. I don't think you can turn
>> off virtual addressing, but that shouldn't have an impact on this problem.
>>
>> Control panel->System->Advanced->Performance->Advanced->No page file
>>
>> Admittedly, it's behind two "advanced" tabs, but the help tells you how to
>> get there too if you put "virtual memory" into the search bar of the control
>> panel.
>>
>> --
>> Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
>> Forget "focus follows mouse." When do
>> I get "focus follows gaze"?
>
> Interesting, I had no idea this was possible. Actually though, I believe it is
> probably better to leave it alone. It's probably there to allow better real-time
> performance for time critical apps.
>
As a rule, usually is. Windows will try to page, even if it *has*
sufficient system memory available, due to how it loads/unloads things
it doesn't need immediately. And, you run into major issues "if" you
don't have it and hit the memory limit.
About the only thing its good for, if you have the system memory, is to
wipe it with a reboot (after turning it off), run a *detailed*
defragger, which consolidates files properly (most won't), then put it
back, and restart. This causes the original to be removed, and a new one
to be created, contiguously, at the end of the high end of the
partition. I doubt 7 is any better than any other version has ever been
at this, so **eventually** the page file gets so screwed up that
everything runs like crap. Killing the file, consolidating everything,
then restoring it is the most effective solution, but if you have enough
free space, there are 1-2 things that *specifically* defrag the page
file, during startup, and before its in use.
Otherwise, you could turn it off in Windows, but, as I said, Windows
doesn't like you doing it **at all**.
--
void main () {
if version = "Vista" {
call slow_by_half();
call DRM_everything();
}
call functional_code();
}
else
call crash_windows();
}
<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models,
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>
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