Hello, all. The POV-Team is considering adding a notification feature
to the Windows version of POV-Ray. We are aware that some people might
feel such a feature is intrusive and we are sensitive to issue. Please
bear in mind that we would not consider adding such a feature if we did
not think it would benefit both users and the developers.

  Here is what we hope to add to POV-Ray. What do you think?

"The feature does the following:

  1) Periodically checks for a new version of POV-Ray for Windows, and

  2) Periodically checks for important news items (not regular news).

Both of these would default to 'ON', but this can be turned off via an
option in the installer (an extra page with some checkboxes that they
have to pass during the install process).

The version and news check would only happen if the user was using
POV-Ray during an active internet session (i.e. it won't cause the RAS
dialer to start).

If a new version or important news item is found to exist, it will pop
up a message box asking if they want their web browser to be launched to
the page in question.

In addition to the above, the program will, when checking for upgrades,
include *non-identifying* data about the system, but ONLY if the user
has permitted it (again, this is an installer option). Incidentally,
*all* of these can also be turned on or off via a menu.

The info that is optionally submitted is stuff that we want to help the
future development of POV-Ray. This includes brand of CPU, CPU speed,
amount of RAM, OS Type, screen resolution and bit depth, number of
monitors, and default language."

  I thank you for your constructive feedback or questions.

speaking on behalf of the POV-Team,
-- 
Alan
ako### [at] povrayorg
a k o n g <at> p o v r a y <dot> o r g

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Alan Kong wrote:
> 
>   Hello, all. The POV-Team is considering adding a notification feature
> to the Windows version of POV-Ray. We are aware that some people might
> feel such a feature is intrusive and we are sensitive to issue. Please
> bear in mind that we would not consider adding such a feature if we did
> not think it would benefit both users and the developers.
> 
> [...]

I think that's fine.  You maybe should consider an additional dialog when
for the first time doing this and having a "don't ask this question again"
checkbox (although this could be considered as redundant because already
asked during installation). 

I would also clearly mention that together with the data about the
computer system no (possibly) identifying data (like IPs) is recorded. 
This would also make sure it complies with laws in europe and elsewhere.

BTW, what about the Mac and Linux version?

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, IsoWood include,                 
TransSkin and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/  
Last updated 05 May. 2002 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

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On Sun, 26 May 2002 19:31:15 -0700, Alan Kong <ako### [at] povrayWWWSPAMCOMorg>
wrote:
>  Here is what we hope to add to POV-Ray. What do you think?

Where should I answer ? Here ?

> "The feature does the following:
>  1) Periodically checks for a new version of POV-Ray for Windows, and

yes

>  2) Periodically checks for important news items (not regular news).

yes

> In addition to the above, the program will include *non-identifying*
> data about the system

yes in general but with note below

> The version and news check would only happen if the user was using
> POV-Ray during an active internet session (i.e. it won't cause the RAS
> dialer to start).

I don't know how "internet session" is handle on on-line servers but if it is
one long session then I think it is bad solution. Usually I work with POV on
2-3 machines in my company. I periodically restart my own machine (P2 233 MHz)
and it could recognize some news distributed this way. Other machines (P3, P4
multiprocessors) I use for complicated renders even one month long. I expect
POV-Ray to be more adjusted (with compilation settings) for those servers. But
if data about the system will be sended once per year it will have low
priority in your database.

> If a new version or important news item is found to exist, it will pop
> up a message box asking if they want their web browser to be launched to
> the page in question.

So another barrier to make POV as service :-(

> The info that is optionally submitted is stuff that we want to help the
> future development of POV-Ray. This includes brand of CPU, CPU speed,
> amount of RAM, OS Type, screen resolution and bit depth, number of
> monitors, and default language."

And in general this is a great idea IMO

ABX

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wrote:
> I don't know how "internet session" is handle on on-line servers but if it is
> one long session then I think it is bad solution. Usually I work with POV on
> 2-3 machines in my company. I periodically restart my own machine (P2 233 MHz)
> and it could recognize some news distributed this way. Other machines (P3, P4
> multiprocessors) I use for complicated renders even one month long. I expect
> POV-Ray to be more adjusted (with compilation settings) for those servers. But
> if data about the system will be sended once per year it will have low
> priority in your database.

Btw: just an idea: storing and summarizing in registry time (CPU cycles) used
for all renders on specified machine. This value sended even once per year
points to importance of application.  Should be of course updated after every
render and preset to 0 after every posting.

ABX

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Alan Kong <ako### [at] povraywwwspamcomorg> wrote:
> Incidentally,
> *all* of these can also be turned on or off via a menu.

  Then it's perfectly fine.

  By the way, may I suggest that when POV-Ray is about to send the
mentioned information about your hardware, it would say something like
"The following information is about to be sent to <wherever it's sent to>"
and then the information in question is listed in textual form (and of course
there should be "Ok" and "Cancel" buttons).
  This way the user sees exactly what is sent and what isn't.

-- 
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -

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> Both of these would default to 'ON', but this can be turned off via an
> option in the installer (an extra page with some checkboxes that they
Fine feature, but I would prefer it beeing default to "OFF". I don't like
programs which want access to the internet by default, like "real player"
for example. The user should decide very conscious on his own.
Florian

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I agree on that one.

"Automatic" and "internet / download" aren't a good combination.
Put a default off, a nice message telling you where to switch it on,
and everyone would be happy.

Regarding some others post of stating what information would
be sent:
I'd say yes, do that, tell us Users what you're doing, but you
have to be aware that people could just tell THIS, but do
THAT.

But, we're talking about POV-Ray here. Its freeware, the
programmers are just neat, and we shouldn't expect anything
bad to happen.
Hm. Well... Does it make POV slower? ;)


Florian Pesth wrote:

> > Both of these would default to 'ON', but this can be turned off via an
> > option in the installer (an extra page with some checkboxes that they
> Fine feature, but I would prefer it beeing default to "OFF". I don't like
> programs which want access to the internet by default, like "real player"
> for example. The user should decide very conscious on his own.
> Florian

--
Tim Nikias
Homepage: http://www.digitaltwilight.de/no_lights/index.html
Email: Tim### [at] gmxde

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On Sun, 26 May 2002 19:31:15 -0700, Alan Kong wrote:
>   Hello, all. The POV-Team is considering adding a notification feature
> to the Windows version of POV-Ray. We are aware that some people might
> feel such a feature is intrusive and we are sensitive to issue. Please
> bear in mind that we would not consider adding such a feature if we did
> not think it would benefit both users and the developers.
> 
>   Here is what we hope to add to POV-Ray. What do you think?

This all sounds like a good idea, particularaly with suggestions put 
forward by a few others in this thread. 

-- 
#local i=.1;#local I=(i/i)/i;#local l=(i+i)/i;#local ll=(I/i)/l;box{<-ll,
-((I/I)+l),-ll><ll,-l,ll>pigment{checker scale l}finish{ambient((I/l)/I)+
(l/I)}}sphere{<i-i,l-l,(I/l)>l/l pigment{rgb((I/l)/I)}finish{reflection((
I/l)/I)-(l/I)specular(I/l)/I}}light_source{<I-l,I+I,(I-l)/l>l/l} // Steve

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Florian Pesth <fpe### [at] compuservede> wrote:
> Fine feature, but I would prefer it beeing default to "OFF". I don't like
> programs which want access to the internet by default, like "real player"
> for example. The user should decide very conscious on his own.

  He said that you can decide it in the install program. I don't see
the problem.

-- 
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -

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>   He said that you can decide it in the install program. I don't see
> the problem.
Not really a problem, but I would prefer it if the "default decision" would
be "OFF" so that when you always click "OK" during the installation
procedure you would disable this feature. I would prefer it because many
people just don't read the installation information (as they should do). But
that's a minor problem.
Regards,
Florian

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