On Sun, 26 May 2002 19:31:15 -0700, Alan Kong wrote:
>   Hello, all. The POV-Team is considering adding a notification feature
> to the Windows version of POV-Ray. We are aware that some people might
> feel such a feature is intrusive and we are sensitive to issue. Please
> bear in mind that we would not consider adding such a feature if we did
> not think it would benefit both users and the developers.
> 
>   Here is what we hope to add to POV-Ray. What do you think?

This all sounds like a good idea, particularaly with suggestions put 
forward by a few others in this thread. 

-- 
#local i=.1;#local I=(i/i)/i;#local l=(i+i)/i;#local ll=(I/i)/l;box{<-ll,
-((I/I)+l),-ll><ll,-l,ll>pigment{checker scale l}finish{ambient((I/l)/I)+
(l/I)}}sphere{<i-i,l-l,(I/l)>l/l pigment{rgb((I/l)/I)}finish{reflection((
I/l)/I)-(l/I)specular(I/l)/I}}light_source{<I-l,I+I,(I-l)/l>l/l} // Steve

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Florian Pesth <fpe### [at] compuservede> wrote:
> Fine feature, but I would prefer it beeing default to "OFF". I don't like
> programs which want access to the internet by default, like "real player"
> for example. The user should decide very conscious on his own.

  He said that you can decide it in the install program. I don't see
the problem.

-- 
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -

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>   He said that you can decide it in the install program. I don't see
> the problem.
Not really a problem, but I would prefer it if the "default decision" would
be "OFF" so that when you always click "OK" during the installation
procedure you would disable this feature. I would prefer it because many
people just don't read the installation information (as they should do). But
that's a minor problem.
Regards,
Florian

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Florian Pesth wrote:
> Not really a problem, but I would prefer it if the
> "default decision" would be "OFF" so that when you
> always click "OK" during the installation procedure
> you would disable this feature.

I agree. It sounds like a great feature, and I would turn it on, but
even something as simple as un-checking some check boxes can cause a
little annoyance sometimes. When I sign up for free services on the
internet I always find it annoying that I have to *un-check* some boxes
to avoid to get all kinds of adds in my inbox. I know this is different,
but the un-checking principle should probably still be avoided.

Rune
--
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POV-Ray Users: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povrayusers/
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Florian Pesth <fpe### [at] compuservede> wrote:
> Not really a problem, but I would prefer it if the "default decision" would
> be "OFF" so that when you always click "OK" during the installation
> procedure you would disable this feature. I would prefer it because many
> people just don't read the installation information (as they should do). But
> that's a minor problem.

  Well, in that case the team could just as well leave that feature out.
  What good does it do to get information from about 0.1% of users?

-- 
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -

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> "Automatic" and "internet / download" aren't a good combination.

There was no mention of download ... it's an advisory only.

-- Chris

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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message news:3cf2eee1@news.povray.org...
>   Well, in that case the team could just as well leave that feature out.
>   What good does it do to get information from about 0.1% of users?

I have to agree with this. Almost no-one would turn it on. If it defaults to
'off' we might as well not do it.

-- Chris

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"Chris Cason" <new### [at] deletethispovrayorg> wrote in message
news:3cf30844@news.povray.org...
>
> "Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
news:3cf2eee1@news.povray.org...
> >   Well, in that case the team could just as well leave that feature out.
> >   What good does it do to get information from about 0.1% of users?
>
> I have to agree with this. Almost no-one would turn it on. If it defaults
to
> 'off' we might as well not do it.

I'm not fond of these type of things either but I still allow for it when I
can. Even used the Microsoft Error Reporting feature of Windows XP and
Internet Explorer until I could take no more of the usual program crashes
always wanting to send them info which may or may not have ever been useful
(I'd never know). Really a very different thing, and those are just plain
aggravating when it comes at a time of computer trouble.

Other than that I still use some auto update stuff, for that very reason
that it simply doesn't seem to get in my way like an error report does. To
recap, only thing that was said to be added to POV-Ray:

  1) Periodically checks for a new version of POV-Ray for Windows, and

  2) Periodically checks for important news items (not regular news).

Not sure what interval was planned but only number 2 seems likely to be of
any true potential for annoyance. If and when any of it seemed to get in the
way then maybe I'd turn it off. Just something I'd have to experience first
though. Would make for a great additional beta test were there the
opportunity, at least to learn how it could be.

Of course, probably the biggest reason for concern is that POV-Ray, "the
program", could become like a nagging web page showing banner ads and such.
It's easy to exaggerate things like this mentally without any actual proof
of what it might be like. You know, rendering while going online and seeing
without warning a popup of whatever. If a part of the toolbar (WinPOV
anyway) blinked a button on then that's altogether a different story and
much less intrusive.

The bit about sending pertinent info seems all out okay to me; after all, it
was said that it would only be the usual specs. Not very important for the
end-user to be worried over. Only that it is obvious it must be made known.

All in all, the ability to turn it off is key. So in my opinion I can't see
this as much of an issue. Or just call me commercialized already.  ;-)

P.S. one thing Warp said:
"may I suggest that when POV-Ray is about to send the
mentioned information about your hardware, it would say something like
"The following information is about to be sent to <wherever it's sent to>"
and then the information in question is listed in textual form (and of
course
there should be "Ok" and "Cancel" buttons)."

I can't agree. That's extra effort I'd rather not do. Again, it supposedly
isn't going to be personal info, but only basic computer specs. Right? So
why worry? No one's going to want to be answering dialog boxes from POV-Ray
simply because they happen to be online while the program is running. Hence
the reason I hope for simple toolbar graphics/text to show during activation
of those things.

bob h

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Chris Cason wrote:

> I have to agree with this. Almost no-one would turn it on. If it defaults to
> 'off' we might as well not do it.

I do not use win, so I know little about these things. What makes you think
that noone would turn it on? I see two possibilities.

1: Noone would want to have it on. In that case you should not default it
   to on, since it's not what people want.
2: People don't care but are too lazy to turn it on. In that case any default
   would be OK. In order to make people turn it on you have to make use
   of their lazyness.

Picturing myself as a win user I would prefer the following solution:
If I always click Ok during installation, no data is sent, but everytime
it would be sent, I get a dialog offering
- to go on as before (ie. periodically popping the dialog)
- to always send the data and not bother me again
- to always send the data popping Warp's message
- to never send the data and not bother me again
In this case nobody could blame povray for tricking her/him into sending
informnation she/he didn't mean to send and the lazy people will eventually
be fed up with the dialog and then WILL take the time and WILL decide
what they want.
(I understand that it is good win practise often to bug the user with popups)

As I said I do not use win, so please do not take this as a vote.

  Mark Weyer

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Alan Kong <ako### [at] povrayWWWSPAMCOMorg> wrote:
>   Here is what we hope to add to POV-Ray. What do you think?
>
> "The feature does the following:
>
>   1) Periodically checks for a new version of POV-Ray for Windows, and
>
>   2) Periodically checks for important news items (not regular news).
>
> Both of these would default to 'ON', but this can be turned off via an
> option in the installer (an extra page with some checkboxes that they
> have to pass during the install process).

As a rule, I don't like apps that sneak onto the internet. I like to be
asked, and if when asked there is the option not to be asked again I may
allow it.

I would rather a flashy toolbar button indicating a waiting message, rather
than a pop up which could come at the most in opportune times, could require
acknowledgement and could seriously knacker someone attempts to
batch/automate pov.

As someone who runs a povray news site, I can tell you there is bugger all
official povray news that
does not involve a new release (and that being the case, option 1 has got it
covered)

Other than advertising pov server supporting products, I cannot see any use
for option 2.


--
Rick

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