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for high quality, like dvds, you're talking huge initial file size. you
figure a dvd is only 750 or so pixels wide, and a two hour movie takes
up 5GB. i think that's around 42 or 43MB per minute. i don't know
about the rest of you, but i find that making a large image and then
reducing it in a paint program comes out better than a small image done
in pov (i've only used bmp. isn't bmp also lossless but without an alpha
channel?). an 800 by 600 image is over one MB. put it in a lossless
avi and i'm not sure what size a single frame ends up (larger or
smaller). but for sure you need an original lossless copy before you go
converting it. fyi, film resolution is like 2500 or 3500 pixels wide
(maybe bigger, but those numbers stick out in my memory). one thing
i've noticed with dvd's is the ability to blow up the image to full
screen and still look good. that may just be due to superior
compression, but i can watch a movie on my monitor at resolution of 1280
by 1024 with few artifacts (although it still looks better on my tv).
anyway, the suggestions by the other guys are all good.
Jetlag wrote:
>
> news:39871AD8.11B5E0D3@club-internet.fr...
> >
> > Is there on the net some software to create high quality animation ? By
>
> POV-Ray produces high-quality animation. :)
>
> > high quality, I mean close to the VOB files found on DVDs.
> > I tried avi with a conversion to MPEG ( with avi2mpg1 : Thanks Ken), but
> > there is a limitation in size : around 360x300.
>
> From avi2mpg1 readme.txt:
> inputfile.avi A windows avi file (you can now specify multiple
> input
> avi files for encoding to a single output file)
> constrained to the following parameters:
>
> Horizontal size: < 4096 pixels
> Vertical size: < 4096 pixels
>
> [snip]
>
> Maybe you have an older version? And only use an uncompressed 24-bit RGB AVI
> as input or you won't be happy with the results. If you really want DVD
> quality then you might try bbMPEG/avi2mpg2
> http://members.home.net/beyeler/bbmpeg.html . I can't really recommend it
> since I haven't used it but supposedly it'll turn your AVI's into MPEG-1 or
> MPEG-2. Again I suggest only using uncompressed AVI's because recompressing
> lossy compression sucks... a lot... the MPEG-1 compression won't know the
> difference between the good part of an compressed AVI and the artifacts,
> it'll try to compress both equally, and waste a lot of space, and probably
> introduce more artifacts.
>
> Good Luck!
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Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.
My hard drive is going to suffer, but who cares today with Mega giga large
hard-drives that which go cheaper and cheaper.
> news:39871AD8.11B5E0D3@club-internet.fr...
> >
> > Is there on the net some software to create high quality animation ? By
>
> POV-Ray produces high-quality animation. :)
>
> > high quality, I mean close to the VOB files found on DVDs.
> > I tried avi with a conversion to MPEG ( with avi2mpg1 : Thanks Ken), but
> > there is a limitation in size : around 360x300.
>
> From avi2mpg1 readme.txt:
> inputfile.avi A windows avi file (you can now specify multiple
> input
> avi files for encoding to a single output file)
> constrained to the following parameters:
>
> Horizontal size: < 4096 pixels
> Vertical size: < 4096 pixels
>
> [snip]
>
> Maybe you have an older version? And only use an uncompressed 24-bit RGB AVI
> as input or you won't be happy with the results. If you really want DVD
> quality then you might try bbMPEG/avi2mpg2
> http://members.home.net/beyeler/bbmpeg.html . I can't really recommend it
> since I haven't used it but supposedly it'll turn your AVI's into MPEG-1 or
> MPEG-2. Again I suggest only using uncompressed AVI's because recompressing
> lossy compression sucks... a lot... the MPEG-1 compression won't know the
> difference between the good part of an compressed AVI and the artifacts,
> it'll try to compress both equally, and waste a lot of space, and probably
> introduce more artifacts.
>
> Good Luck!
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In article <3987D261.FF76B9F0@yahoo.com>, ryan constantine
<rco### [at] yahoo com> wrote:
>up 5GB. i think that's around 42 or 43MB per minute. i don't know
>about the rest of you, but i find that making a large image and then
>reducing it in a paint program comes out better than a small image done
>in pov (i've only used bmp. isn't bmp also lossless but without an alpha
You mean rather than make a small image in POV, you make a large image
in POV and then use a paint program to reduce the size?
Besides seeming like a waste of time (the time POV takes to render an
image is approximately proportional to the *area*, or approximately a
squared ratio), my experience has been the other way: POV seems to be
able to make better small images; it seems that POV's knowledge of what
is actually in the scene makes it better able to approximate what color
should be at any pixel.
The difference is especially apparent when making simple logos with lots
of clearly defined lines. POV can keep those lines and curves smooth at
tiny sizes; resizing a large POV image inside a graphics editor results
in some pretty ugly lines and curves.
Jerry
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> Is there on the net some software to create high quality animation ? By
> high quality, I mean close to the VOB files found on DVDs.
> I tried avi with a conversion to MPEG ( with avi2mpg1 : Thanks Ken), but
Have you tried mpeg2encode? I found it's one of the best encoder, but it's for
linux...
There is no limitation and you can tweak the parameters to get a very compressed
but still high in quality animation...
> there is a limitation in size : around 360x300.
> I tried lately the Divx format. It is read fine, but the drivers I
> downloaded (for the M$ platform) are not up to it when it comes to
> making animations.
Since, I guess you're on Windows, I can't help you with that...
Hope this helps,
Simon
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I work on both platform. Actually I keep switching from Linux to Windows and back.
Linux still lacks a lot of things, but things will change with time.
I am going to give it a try. I do the renders in Linux and compile the pictures in
Windows.
Merci pour l'astuce.
> > Is there on the net some software to create high quality animation ? By
> > high quality, I mean close to the VOB files found on DVDs.
> > I tried avi with a conversion to MPEG ( with avi2mpg1 : Thanks Ken), but
>
> Have you tried mpeg2encode? I found it's one of the best encoder, but it's for
> linux...
> There is no limitation and you can tweak the parameters to get a very compressed
> but still high in quality animation...
>
> > there is a limitation in size : around 360x300.
> > I tried lately the Divx format. It is read fine, but the drivers I
> > downloaded (for the M$ platform) are not up to it when it comes to
> > making animations.
>
> Since, I guess you're on Windows, I can't help you with that...
>
> Hope this helps,
> Simon
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You mean Bink.
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Tony[B] <ben### [at] panamac-comnet> wrote in message
news:398a0f21@news.povray.org...
> You mean Bink.
Yes you are right for high quality Bink will do a good job.
...from the Rad Game site...
==========================================================================
"Smacker is better than ever! The new version includes video compression
with twice the video quality and now uses the Bink audio codec for
perceptually lossless 8 to 1 compression!! Check it out! [download]
Smacker is still the best codec for: 256 color games (of course), games
targeting low-end machines (Pentium 133 and below), games that need video
sprites or video transparency (which is much faster in 256), cell-based
(cartoon-style) videos, animated 3D texture compression, and very
high-resolution videos, like 800x600 or 1024x768 - only Smacker is fast
enough for videos this big.
The Smacker SDK is available for DOS, 16-bit Windows, Windows 95/NT, Win32s,
68K Mac, and PowerMac. The API is identical across platforms, and Smacker
files can be played without conversion on each platform."
And on Bink
==========================================================================
"Bink Video - our new true-color video codec!
Bink Video is revolutionizing game videos just like Smacker did four years
ago! Bink is a "better-than-MPEG-II" class codec. That's right - better
than DVD! Bink produces higher-quality than MPEG-II and is up to three
times faster than other software decoders. Finally...a true-color codec good
enough for game developers.
The Bink Tools for Windows 95, Windows NT, and MacOS are available for
download! You can download the free Bink Tools, or call 425-893-4300 for the
Bink SDK."
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Simon Lemieux wrote:
>
> > Is there on the net some software to create high quality animation ? By
> > high quality, I mean close to the VOB files found on DVDs.
> > I tried avi with a conversion to MPEG ( with avi2mpg1 : Thanks Ken), but
>
> Have you tried mpeg2encode? I found it's one of the best encoder, but it's for
> linux...
> There is no limitation and you can tweak the parameters to get a very compressed
> but still high in quality animation...
I have built mpeg2encode for Windows with png support.
http://www.buckosoft.com/gallery/tools/mpeg2/
I can't get it to make a decent animation. Oh sure, it starts out like gangbusters
but after a 100 frames or so, whenever i hit some high motion scene (rotate the
camera on the y) it craps out with underruns and overruns. I can get a valid
MPEG-1 out of it, but it looks like dung compared to mpegencode.
Can you share one of your parameter files?
dik
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> > > Is there on the net some software to create high quality animation ? By
> > > high quality, I mean close to the VOB files found on DVDs.
> > > I tried avi with a conversion to MPEG ( with avi2mpg1 : Thanks Ken), but
> >
> > Have you tried mpeg2encode? I found it's one of the best encoder, but it's for
> > linux...
> > There is no limitation and you can tweak the parameters to get a very compressed
> > but still high in quality animation...
>
> I have built mpeg2encode for Windows with png support.
> http://www.buckosoft.com/gallery/tools/mpeg2/
> I can't get it to make a decent animation. Oh sure, it starts out like gangbusters
> but after a 100 frames or so, whenever i hit some high motion scene (rotate the
> camera on the y) it craps out with underruns and overruns. I can get a valid
> MPEG-1 out of it, but it looks like dung compared to mpegencode.
>
> Can you share one of your parameter files?
Sure! Here this setting works for MPEG-2 stream and will give underuns and
overruns if the frames Aren't 512x384... I've tweaked it so... you might have
to tweak it yourself for your settings...
The things I've discovered you can tweak are:
/* horizontal_size */
/* vertical_size */
/* bit_rate (bits/s) */
/* vbv_buffer_size
/* display_horizontal_size */
/* display_vertical_size */
Set you Sizes and then tweak the bit_rate for a Maximum of quality (don't look
at the result just give a very big number) and then adjust the vbv_buffer_size
so there is no underruns or overruns...
overruns means the bit_rate is too high for the vbv_buffer and underrun means
the opposite...
I don't know if what I said is true... I've asked a lot of question about it
and nobody seemed to know it... the mpeg2encode website is not working so, I
guessed it all by myself...
Here take a look at my movie.par I will actually use for this IRTC Animation
round...
Hope this helps,
Simon Lemieux
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
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Simon Lemieux wrote:
> ? Can you share one of your parameter files?
>
> Sure! Here this setting works for MPEG-2 stream and will give underuns and
> overruns if the frames Aren't 512x384...
Hmm, this set generates an MPEG-1; a nice looking, albeit large MPEG-1.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MPEG-1 Movie Sequence, 25 fps, no compression
yes, generates an MPEG-1; a nice looking, albeit large MPEG-1.
> render/alienTech.%05d /* name of source files */
> - /* name of reconstructed images ("-": don't store) */
> - /* name of intra quant matrix file ("-": default matrix) */
> - /* name of non intra quant matrix file ("-": default matrix) */
> stat.out /* name of statistics file ("-": stdout ) */
> 2 /* input picture file format: 0=*.Y,*.U,*.V, 1=*.yuv, 2=*.ppm */
> 100 /* number of frames */
> 0 /* number of first frame */
> 00:00:00:00 /* timecode of first frame */
> 1 /* N (# of frames in GOP) */
This sez to use only I frames (GOP size of 1). This will have the highest quality
and be quite large. (about 25x larger than using I, B, and P frames)
> 1 /* M (I/P frame distance) */
> 1 /* ISO/IEC 11172-2 stream */
This flag sez to generate an MPEG-1. From the docs:
187: /* ISO/IEC 11172-2 stream */
188:
189: Set to 1 if you want to generate an MPEG-1 sequence. In this
case some
190: of the subsequent MPEG-2 specific values are ignored.
> 0 /* 0:frame pictures, 1:field pictures */
> 512 /* horizontal_size */
> 384 /* vertical_size */
> 9 /* aspect_ratio_information 8=CCIR601 625 line, 9=CCIR601 525 line */
Interesting. My docs don't show 8/9 as legal values.
210: /* aspect_ratio_information */
211:
212: Defines the display aspect ratio. Legal values are:
213:
214: Code Meaning
215: ---- --------------
216: 1 square pels
217: 2 4:3 display
218: 3 16:9 display
219: 4 2.21:1 display
220:
221: MPEG-1 uses a different coding of aspect ratios. In this cases
codes
222: 1 to 14 are valid.
> 3 /* frame_rate_code 1=23.976, 2=24, 3=25, 4=29.97, 5=30 frames/sec. */
> 3000000.0 /* bit_rate (bits/s) */
3Mb/s is too high for an MPEG-1. I'm not sure if it internally forces it down to the
max
of 1.856Mb/s or if M$ Media Player doesn't care if its "overclocked".
> 20 /* vbv_buffer_size (in multiples of 16 kbit) */
20 is the correct value for the MPEG-1 vbv_buffer_size. MPEG-2 should be 112.
> 0 /* low_delay */
> 0 /* constrained_parameters_flag */
> 4 /* Profile ID: Simple = 5, Main = 4, SNR = 3, Spatial = 2, High = 1 */
> 8 /* Level ID: Low = 10, Main = 8, High 1440 = 6, High = 4 */
> 1 /* progressive_sequence */
> 1 /* chroma_format: 1=4:2:0, 2=4:2:2, 3=4:4:4 */
> 2 /* video_format: 0=comp., 1=PAL, 2=NTSC, 3=SECAM, 4=MAC, 5=unspec. */
> 5 /* color_primaries */
> 5 /* transfer_characteristics */
> 5 /* matrix_coefficients */
> 512 /* display_horizontal_size */
> 384 /* display_vertical_size */
> 0 /* intra_dc_precision (0: 8 bit, 1: 9 bit, 2: 10 bit, 3: 11 bit */
> 0 /* top_field_first */
> 1 1 1 /* frame_pred_frame_dct (I P B) */
> 0 0 0 /* concealment_motion_vectors (I P B) */
> 0 0 0 /* q_scale_type (I P B) */
> 0 0 0 /* intra_vlc_format (I P B)*/
> 0 0 0 /* alternate_scan (I P B) */
> 0 /* repeat_first_field */
> 1 /* progressive_frame */
> 0 /* P distance between complete intra slice refresh */
> 0 /* rate control: r (reaction parameter) */
> 0 /* rate control: avg_act (initial average activity) */
> 0 /* rate control: Xi (initial I frame global complexity measure) */
> 0 /* rate control: Xp (initial P frame global complexity measure) */
> 0 /* rate control: Xb (initial B frame global complexity measure) */
> 0 /* rate control: d0i (initial I frame virtual buffer fullness) */
> 0 /* rate control: d0p (initial P frame virtual buffer fullness) */
> 0 /* rate control: d0b (initial B frame virtual buffer fullness) */
> 2 2 11 11 /* P: forw_hor_f_code forw_vert_f_code search_width/height */
> 1 1 6 6 /* B1: forw_hor_f_code forw_vert_f_code search_width/height */
> 1 1 6 6 /* B1: back_hor_f_code back_vert_f_code search_width/height */
> 1 1 6 6 /* B2: forw_hor_f_code forw_vert_f_code search_width/height */
> 1 1 6 6 /* B2: back_hor_f_code back_vert_f_code search_width/height */
dik
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