Mikael Carneholm wrote:
> 
> Ken wrote:
> 
> > That would be a great feature not only for animations but with radiosity
> > and a couple of the other unique features that require special handling.
> 
> Actually, I got so inspired by this that I took the liberty of putting together an
> animation dialog draft. Check out the screendumps in binaries.programming.

I just saw that. Excellent. I will bring this to the POV-Team's attention.
I think they will like it.

-- 
Ken Tyler -  1200+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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Peter Popov <pet### [at] usanet> wrote:
: Anyway, drop a line about command
: line params there, will you?

  I think that they are explained well enough in the povray documentation.
  The VFAQ is not supposed to be a complete tutorial on how to use povray :)

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote in message
news:38394639.98A18374@pacbell.net...
> Mikael Carneholm wrote:
> > Actually, I got so inspired by this that I took the liberty of putting
together an
> > animation dialog draft. Check out the screendumps in
binaries.programming.
>
> I just saw that. Excellent. I will bring this to the POV-Team's attention.
> I think they will like it.


I think I'll get bashed with "don't you think they have enough work as it
is?" (and rightly so), but wouldn't this better be part of a general command
line/ini file editing interface

... that seems to be already planned (the button in the render settings
window/dialog box).


Philippe.

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On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:38:53 +0100, "Philippe Debar"
<phi### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

>I think I'll get bashed with "don't you think they have enough work as it
>is?" (and rightly so), but wouldn't this better be part of a general command
>line/ini file editing interface

Don't worry, I don;t think you'll get bashed. Not by the Team, at
least. And yes, this would certainly make a better interface, at least
for new users and more GUI-oriented users. Personally I find the
command-line approach faster and easier, but then again, who says I'm
sane? :)

>... that seems to be already planned (the button in the render settings
>window/dialog box).

Indeed it has, but it seems that more time is devoted to the core of
the program than to platform-specific frontends.

>Philippe.

This is my personal opinion, in no way connected nor supported nor
rejected by the POV-Team.


Peter Popov
ICQ: 15002700

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On 23 Nov 1999 09:27:18 -0500, Nieminen Juha
<war### [at] punarastascstutfi> wrote:

>Peter Popov <pet### [at] usanet> wrote:
>: Anyway, drop a line about command
>: line params there, will you?
>
>  I think that they are explained well enough in the povray documentation.
>  The VFAQ is not supposed to be a complete tutorial on how to use povray :)

You have a point. Let'em Read The Fine Manual. After all, it's what it
has been put there for, right? :)


Peter Popov
ICQ: 15002700

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David Parrott <Xam### [at] quayles1demoncouk> wrote:
> I personally do not like to use the master POV .ini file.  I create an
> .ini file for each animation that I create and have things in it like
> The input and output file names, the first and last frame, first and
> last clock value, and the height and width of the image.  However I
was
> set on finding out how to do animations so I used the docs (well it
> shows some of us newbies read them!) the look up the settings.
>
> However that is about as far as my animations go, I have no idea how
> people do the complex animations, the complexity of mine stand at a
> spinning cube.  If you have any for using straight POV (i.e. not
> ClockMod) for complex animations I would be very grateful.

Something of a loaded question, I'd say!  Given the handful of INI file
animation options, and the two animation variables (clock and
clock_delta) you could be forgiven for thinking that POV-Ray isn't
really suitable for animations.  A quick wander around this news server,
however, should give you some idea of what's possible, and I've actually
been fortunate enough to recently receive a 4:15 minute video clip
(around 8000 frames) rendered entirely in POV-Ray by a certain Tobias
'Swift' Wiersch which shows just how powerful POV-Ray can be.

You mention the Clock Modifier, and I actually created the original
include file in response to people asking how to use the POV clock for
more than basic, linear actions.  The include file works just like slope
maps do on pigments/normals, allowing different 'shapes' than straight
line interpolations.  But it, and the Automatic Clock Modifier macros,
are only tools to help you to make use of the POV clock.

Putting them aside, then, I think POV-Ray animation can be broken down
into three types:

1) Timeline animation, where every action is defined as a direct
function of the clock;
2) Keyframe animation, where actions are defined as interpolations
between clock values;
3) Rules animations, where certain parameters and behaviours are
programmed and then the animation is run frame by frame, each frame
building on the previous one.

Of course, these three types can be combined and used together in
different ways.  For the first, I find it helps to visualise how certain
mathematical functions affect the clock (in two dimensions), before
using them to change aspects of the three-dimensional scene.  For
example, using multiplication to 'scale' the clock, addition/subtraction
to translate it, raising by powers to create accelerated/decelerated
motions, sine/cosines to create smooth oscillations and waves, modulo's
to clip and repeat functions, etc.  Combining these with conditionals
allows you to reshape the clock to perform just about any action you
like - but long, nested functions can get pretty unwieldy!

This is where keyframing helps, because you can break the clock down
into separate little actions much more easily, and modifying the order,
lengths, etc. of each interpolated segment becomes much simpler.  Apart
from the Automatic Clock Modifier, I believe there is a program
available that will keyframe Moray scenes, and no doubt there is other
software you can use as well.

The final type of animation is quite feasible thanks to POV-Ray's file
I/O features, and can be a lot of fun because once you've programmed,
parameterised, and randomised the actions you can sit back and enjoy
different results whenever you want!

Of course, the best way to learn is by doing, and that requires having
something to animate... throwing an whole other discussion open!  Camera
flythroughs are a start, as are object studies (like a spinning cube).
More complicated are mechanical animations (robots, engines, etc.) and
most complicated of all are animations that aim to mimic nature: people,
plants, thunderstorms, water, the birth of the solar-system....

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> Don't worry, I don;t think you'll get bashed. Not by the Team, at
> least.
*phew*

> And yes, this would certainly make a better interface, at least
> for new users and more GUI-oriented users. Personally I find the
> command-line approach faster and easier, but then again, who says I'm
> sane? :)

Yes, once you get the hang of it, the command line is faster. I even suggest
the command-line box could be moved on the toolbar, beside the QuickIni
droplist... and letter(s) switches for all rendering options (I believe I
remenber there are some that can only be set by words in a .ini file -
although I am not sure, I haven't run into one for quite some time now.)


> >... that seems to be already planned (the button in the render settings
> >window/dialog box).
>
> Indeed it has, but it seems that more time is devoted to the core of
> the program than to platform-specific frontends.


And I prefre it that way too. Pov itstelf is more important.


> This is my personal opinion, in no way connected nor supported nor
> rejected by the POV-Team.


Nor mine... not that I think anybody could do the mistake :-)


Povingly


Philippe

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Nieminen Juha wrote:

>   I think that they are explained well enough in the povray documentation.
>   The VFAQ is not supposed to be a complete tutorial on how to use povray :)
>

If the (windows) interface was intuitive enough there would be no need for the
VFAQ!
=)

----------------------------------------------------
Mikael Carneholm
Dep. of Computer Science and Business Administration


Personal homepage:
http://www.studenter.hb.se/~arch
E-mail:
sa9### [at] idautbhbse

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Mikael Carneholm wrote:
> 
> Nieminen Juha wrote:
> 
> >   I think that they are explained well enough in the povray documentation.
> >   The VFAQ is not supposed to be a complete tutorial on how to use povray :)
> >
> 
> If the (windows) interface was intuitive enough there would be no need for the
> VFAQ!
> =)

Would it be pointless to mention that not everthing in the VFAQ specificaly
addresses the proceedural aspect of POV-Ray such as Moray specific questions,
why can't I use POV-Ray files in other 3D apps, and questions of this sort ?
I mean like there is a limit as what one should expect documetation to try
to do or it would become so bloated as to be worthless when trying to find
other information.

You know what I mean Verne ?

-- 
Ken Tyler -  1200+ Povray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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Chris, keyframing can also be done though the use of splines. For an example
I'll use the Superpatch version (less complicated than yours).

#declare Movement =
spline {
cubic_spline
0,.5
.125,.75
.25,.25
.35,.666
.5,.333
.625,0
.75,.25
.8,1
}

sphere {<0,0,0+Movement(clock)>,1  translate y pigment {rgb x*2}}

camera {location <10,10,10> look_at 0}
light_source {<-20,10,20> rgb 1}


This is meant to be run on a 0-1 clock at about 40 frames. It produces
extremely smooth movements and it's uses in animation are endless. Movement,
rotation, and color are only the beginning.  I've even used this in a
animation to fake radiosity, with stunning results (its memory and render
time friendly!). Anyway, just want to point out a pov-native alternative.

H.E. Day

Chris Colefax wrote:

> David Parrott <Xam### [at] quayles1demoncouk> wrote:
> > I personally do not like to use the master POV .ini file.  I create an
> > .ini file for each animation that I create and have things in it like
> > The input and output file names, the first and last frame, first and
> > last clock value, and the height and width of the image.  However I
> was
> > set on finding out how to do animations so I used the docs (well it
> > shows some of us newbies read them!) the look up the settings.
> >
> > However that is about as far as my animations go, I have no idea how
> > people do the complex animations, the complexity of mine stand at a
> > spinning cube.  If you have any for using straight POV (i.e. not
> > ClockMod) for complex animations I would be very grateful.
>
> Something of a loaded question, I'd say!  Given the handful of INI file
> animation options, and the two animation variables (clock and
> clock_delta) you could be forgiven for thinking that POV-Ray isn't
> really suitable for animations.  A quick wander around this news server,
> however, should give you some idea of what's possible, and I've actually
> been fortunate enough to recently receive a 4:15 minute video clip
> (around 8000 frames) rendered entirely in POV-Ray by a certain Tobias
> 'Swift' Wiersch which shows just how powerful POV-Ray can be.
>
> You mention the Clock Modifier, and I actually created the original
> include file in response to people asking how to use the POV clock for
> more than basic, linear actions.  The include file works just like slope
> maps do on pigments/normals, allowing different 'shapes' than straight
> line interpolations.  But it, and the Automatic Clock Modifier macros,
> are only tools to help you to make use of the POV clock.
>
> Putting them aside, then, I think POV-Ray animation can be broken down
> into three types:
>
> 1) Timeline animation, where every action is defined as a direct
> function of the clock;
> 2) Keyframe animation, where actions are defined as interpolations
> between clock values;
> 3) Rules animations, where certain parameters and behaviours are
> programmed and then the animation is run frame by frame, each frame
> building on the previous one.
>
> Of course, these three types can be combined and used together in
> different ways.  For the first, I find it helps to visualise how certain
> mathematical functions affect the clock (in two dimensions), before
> using them to change aspects of the three-dimensional scene.  For
> example, using multiplication to 'scale' the clock, addition/subtraction
> to translate it, raising by powers to create accelerated/decelerated
> motions, sine/cosines to create smooth oscillations and waves, modulo's
> to clip and repeat functions, etc.  Combining these with conditionals
> allows you to reshape the clock to perform just about any action you
> like - but long, nested functions can get pretty unwieldy!
>
> This is where keyframing helps, because you can break the clock down
> into separate little actions much more easily, and modifying the order,
> lengths, etc. of each interpolated segment becomes much simpler.  Apart
> from the Automatic Clock Modifier, I believe there is a program
> available that will keyframe Moray scenes, and no doubt there is other
> software you can use as well.
>
> The final type of animation is quite feasible thanks to POV-Ray's file
> I/O features, and can be a lot of fun because once you've programmed,
> parameterised, and randomised the actions you can sit back and enjoy
> different results whenever you want!
>
> Of course, the best way to learn is by doing, and that requires having
> something to animate... throwing an whole other discussion open!  Camera
> flythroughs are a start, as are object studies (like a spinning cube).
> More complicated are mechanical animations (robots, engines, etc.) and
> most complicated of all are animations that aim to mimic nature: people,
> plants, thunderstorms, water, the birth of the solar-system....

Post a reply to this message