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From: Stephen
Subject: TC-RTC Rant
Date: 1 Jul 2008 15:04:11
Message: <fkhk64dhv9a0f55r5nf21maafn88b42113@4ax.com>
Well the results for June are in and I'm very disappointed with them.
Out of eleven entries only five people could be bothered to vote. And
one person gave 1-1-1 to three entries which I think is a disgrace and
not in the spirit of the challenge. (My entry got 5-5-1 from the same
person but that is a different matter.) The results are so skewed that
they are meaningless. This, I think, is an insult to our community and
to St who has spent a lot of time and his own money setting up this
site for us.
I have made a quick analysis of the scores and here they are:

As they stand

		Total	Rank
septime		194	1
ian		194	1
DrNo		182	3
rmcgregor	178	4
ThomdeG	157	5
kallo.b		150	6
milco2006	148	7
steve		142	8
Michelobst	133	9
Stephen		130	10
lequenne	128	11

With a straight average

	 	Avg	Rank Avg
rmcgregor	0.741667	1
ThomdeG	0.654167	2
septime		0.646667	3
ian		0.646667	3
DrNo		0.606667	5
steve		0.591667	6
Stephen		0.541667	7
lequenne	0.533333	8
kallo.b		0.5		9
milco2006	0.493333	10
Michelobst	0.443333	11


With a weighted average. I discounted the lowest score and added the
average of the remainder to the discounted score;

	 	Avg less lowest	Rank Avg less lowest
rmcgregor	0.805556	1
steve		0.711111	2
ThomdeG	0.705556	3
lequenne	0.694444	4
ian		0.691667	5
septime		0.6875		6
DrNo		0.666667	7
Stephen		0.661111	8
kallo.b		0.6125		9
milco2006	0.604167	10
Michelobst	0.541667	11

With the original score and a bonus of 20-20-20 to everyone who voted.

	 	Bonus for voting		Bonus Rank
rmcgregor	0.793333	1
ThomdeG	0.723333	2
steve		0.673333	3
septime		0.646667	4
ian		0.646667	4
Stephen		0.633333	6
lequenne	0.626667	7
DrNo		0.606667	8
kallo.b		0.5		9
milco2006	0.493333	10
Michelobst	0.443333	11
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: St 
Subject: Re: TC-RTC Rant
Date: 2 Jul 2008 17:25:35
Message: <486bba0f$1@news.povray.org>
Thanks very much for that Stephen, much appreciated. The 20/20/20 system is 
something that will probably be implemented in time for the next voting, and 
a newsletter within the next week(ish) should be expected too. As for the 
present situation, we've decided to award a joint-first status in this round 
(if anyone was wondering). The website has been updated: 
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk

  As a side note, and something personal from me to you all, (this isn't 
aimed at you in particular Stephen). I totally agree that low scoring like 
that is an obvious attempt at skewing the final results and definately not 
in keeping with the "fair play" side of things. (*My* observation). Can we 
keep it good and try to score fairly please? I know most of you do. :)

  I'm trying to do my best to get this right for everyone. I think it's a 
fun contest, and it certainly works ok - apart from some unnoticed bugs and 
behaviors that is. If you spot something, just mail me from the contacts 
page on the site.


    Steve


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From: milco2006
Subject: Re: TC-RTC Rant
Date: 3 Jul 2008 15:20:01
Message: <web.486ced151e626beb4b71cf790@news.povray.org>
"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
> Thanks very much for that Stephen, much appreciated. The 20/20/20 system is
> something that will probably be implemented in time for the next voting,

I have to say that adding a bonus of 20 to everyone who votes seems a little
strange as the only reason I did not vote (as discussed in previous thread
here) is that I could not, thus those who vote gain a good boost by getting 20
extra points for each section for voting. Surely it would be more logical to
add their average score to their overall to make up the difference.

> I totally agree that low scoring like that is an obvious attempt at skewing the >
final results and definately not in
 keeping with the "fair play" side of things. > (*My* observation).

The very low vote seems curious as it seriously weights the voting against
certain entries. Although I realise that you [stephen] have analysed the
results with just missing out that vote (which is good) it still doesn't really
make up for the equivilent of a productive balanced vote on all entries sadly.

>   I'm trying to do my best to get this right for everyone. I think it's a
> fun contest, and it certainly works ok

Thank you again for spending so much effort running the contest, it is running
fairly smoothly in my opinion. And although I don't rate very high yet I am
learning loads and really enjoying entering the contest. I just really hope
that we get a good number of entries and votes in the next round!

Malcolm


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From: Robert McGregor
Subject: Re: TC-RTC Rant
Date: 3 Jul 2008 22:50:00
Message: <web.486d573f1e626bebbd1b3ad10@news.povray.org>
Okay, wait a minute Steven, you're saying that with all of those alternate
scoring options: the straight average, weighted average, or the original score
and 20-20-20 voting bonus methods, that I, rmcgregor, actually got 1st place?

LOL. Well, I worked a LOT harder on "Slaver's Gorge" than I have on any of my
previous entries, so that makes my poor little ego feel somewhat better, heh!

Thanks :)
-Rob

"There is no spoon."


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From: Robert McGregor
Subject: Re: TC-RTC Rant
Date: 3 Jul 2008 22:55:00
Message: <web.486d58b71e626bebbd1b3ad10@news.povray.org>
"Robert McGregor" <rob### [at] mcgregorfineartcom> wrote:
> Okay, wait a minute Steven, you're saying that with all of those alternate

Apologetically fumble-fingered: *Stephen


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From: Robert McGregor
Subject: Re: TC-RTC Rant
Date: 3 Jul 2008 23:30:00
Message: <web.486d5f391e626bebbd1b3ad10@news.povray.org>
"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>   As a side note, and something personal from me to you all, (this isn't
> aimed at you in particular Stephen). I totally agree that low scoring like
> that is an obvious attempt at skewing the final results and definitely not
> in keeping with the "fair play" side of things. (*My* observation). Can we
> keep it good and try to score fairly please? I know most of you do. :)

So, someone was trying to skew the results, eh? Bah! Baahh!!
Okay, we're watching you guys...

>   I'm trying to do my best to get this right for everyone. I think it's a
> fun contest, and it certainly works ok - apart from some unnoticed bugs and
> behaviors that is. If you spot something, just mail me from the contacts
> page on the site.

I think this month was the first time that the voting app was really intuitive
and functioning the way I expected, good visual feedback on which images had
been voted on already, and love the expandable comment box, etc - really nice
job on that Steve! (I know how troublesome that sort of thing can become)

One bug I need to report is that it didn't put me 1st place this round - can
you look into that please ;?  Stephen apparently has mathematical options where
I always win (woot!)...

-Rob :)

"There is no spoon."


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: TC-RTC Rant
Date: 5 Jul 2008 13:05:15
Message: <ebsu64l50mkqlp7pmgt2d8t74lkkplmlvn@4ax.com>
On Thu,  3 Jul 2008 18:48:31 EDT, "Robert McGregor" <rob### [at] mcgregorfineartcom>
wrote:

>Okay, wait a minute Steven, you're saying that with all of those alternate
>scoring options: the straight average, weighted average, or the original score
>and 20-20-20 voting bonus methods, that I, rmcgregor, actually got 1st place?
>
>LOL. Well, I worked a LOT harder on "Slaver's Gorge" than I have on any of my
>previous entries, so that makes my poor little ego feel somewhat better, heh!
>
>Thanks :)
>-Rob
>
Yes I did work it out that way. Sums available on request :)
If you had not voted I think that you would have won outright. But you did and
I'm sure that you sleep better for it :)
Unfortunately I couldn't get my score higher than sixth but that serves me right
for uploading a placeholder and not finishing the scene. :)
I got distracted with an entry for the animation challenge.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Hildur K 
Subject: Re: TC-RTC Rant
Date: 7 Jul 2008 12:25:00
Message: <web.48720a651e626beb8af90a170@news.povray.org>
I was looking through the images this round and I found there are several
favorites of mine, several -should have- winners, which I can´t make up my mind
about. This is highly unusual as I normally have only a one or two absolute
favorites.

There is a stunning quality throughout and you Steve can be proud to be a part
of this (or should I say the creator of this) competition.

Yeah I know, too bad I never seem to find the time to participate.

Well, maybe the next round.... one can dream....

Anyway, I´m still following this competition and I like where it´s going. The
rules have been improved and the submissions are improving as well, meaning
that people are taking this seriously and putting an extra effort into their
work. Which is great.

Anyway, just wanted to say hi!

Hildur Kolbrun


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: TC-RTC Rant
Date: 7 Jul 2008 15:56:54
Message: <ste4745aulvv12h8penia6qilkevk5ifsa@4ax.com>
On Mon,  7 Jul 2008 08:21:57 EDT, "Hildur K." <hil### [at] 3dcafemailevery1net>
wrote:

>I was looking through the images this round and I found there are several
>favorites of mine, several -should have- winners, which I can´t make up my mind
>about. This is highly unusual as I normally have only a one or two absolute
>favorites.
>

That is good to hear.

>There is a stunning quality throughout and you Steve can be proud to be a part
>of this (or should I say the creator of this) competition.
>

Well the credit goes to Steve. He set up the site and maintains it. 

>Yeah I know, too bad I never seem to find the time to participate.
>
>Well, maybe the next round.... one can dream....
>

Yes indeed! The time frame is long enough so you can work on it slowly,
especially for animations.

>Anyway, I´m still following this competition and I like where it´s going. The
>rules have been improved and the submissions are improving as well, meaning
>that people are taking this seriously and putting an extra effort into their
>work. Which is great.
>

Having an end goal helps keep down those unfinished projects :)

>Anyway, just wanted to say hi!


And hi to you, Hildur
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Robert McGregor
Subject: Re: TC-RTC Rant
Date: 7 Jul 2008 20:05:00
Message: <web.487275fb1e626beb86ff1d480@news.povray.org>
Stephen <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom> wrote:
> On Thu,  3 Jul 2008 18:48:31 EDT, "Robert McGregor" <rob### [at] mcgregorfineartcom>
> wrote:
>
> >Okay, wait a minute Steven, you're saying that with all of those alternate
> >scoring options: the straight average, weighted average, or the original score
> >and 20-20-20 voting bonus methods, that I, rmcgregor, actually got 1st place?
> >
> >LOL. Well, I worked a LOT harder on "Slaver's Gorge" than I have on any of my
> >previous entries, so that makes my poor little ego feel somewhat better, heh!
> >
> >Thanks :)
> >-Rob
> >
> Yes I did work it out that way. Sums available on request :)
> If you had not voted I think that you would have won outright. But you did and
> I'm sure that you sleep better for it :)
> Unfortunately I couldn't get my score higher than sixth but that serves me right
> for uploading a placeholder and not finishing the scene. :)
> I got distracted with an entry for the animation challenge.
>
> --
>
> Regards
>      Stephen

Thanks Stephen, I'm still not sure how me NOT voting would have made my overall
score better
(that's just counterintuitive). Regardless, why would an entrant WANT to
NOT vote? That's part of participating in the competition as far as I'm
concerned. Maybe there should be penalties for NOT voting.

-Rob


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