"Angela" <ang### [at] yahoocom> schreef in bericht 
news:web.45ef910aac010f74ee398cbc0@news.povray.org...
>
> I created a picture for the TINA CheP competition, but I didn't submit it
> (for shame, I know!). I interpreted the topic as a challenge, so I used 
> all
> the advanced techniques I've learned since my checkered plane days to 
> create
> the picture. By the time I was finished, it was so far from the topic, I
> chickened out and didn't send it in.
>

What I forgot to say... You can always show the picture in p.b.i.
To tell the truth, I am very curious now that you revealed it's existence 
:-)

Thomas

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The posts in this thread give me hope (confidence?) that the March/April
"Before & After" round will have a significant increase in the number of
entries.  Perhaps we could  use a web page that would show prospective
entrants the topic, rules, submission process and a link to the existing
images.   I would be willing to produce this unless there is someone else
who has a burning desire to do so.  Before beginning, I would like to get
some feedback and suggestions from the folks involved (or anyone else with
good ideas). Especially welcomed would be ideas for a short catchy name for
our endeavor.  The name "The Interim Pseudo IRTC / TINA CheP Ray Tracing
Forum" is unlikely to have potential participants submitting in droves.  I
was rather hoping that ~Steve~ would be willing to host the page so that
everything would be together in one place, but I could find a spot for it
myself if this was not agreeable for any reason.  I would like to have the
whole thing up and running by the end of this weekend if at all possible so
that anyone introduced to the project by the page would have plenty of time

notion of judging and picking winners myself, but we really ought to

decisions will be forthcoming in a reasonable amount of time.

Thanks in advance to everyone for their input.

-Mike C.

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"Mike the Elder" <zer### [at] wyanorg> wrote in message 
news:web.45f00276ac010f746d4565230@news.povray.org...
> The posts in this thread give me hope (confidence?) that the March/April
> "Before & After" round will have a significant increase in the number of
> entries.

    Hi Mike, me too.

Perhaps we could  use a web page that would show prospective
> entrants the topic, rules, submission process and a link to the existing
> images.

   This, I'm dealing with right now. Over the weekend, (or sooner), your 
suggestions below will also be implemented.


 I would be willing to produce this unless there is someone else
> who has a burning desire to do so.  Before beginning, I would like to get
> some feedback and suggestions from the folks involved (or anyone else with
> good ideas). Especially welcomed would be ideas for a short catchy name 
> for
> our endeavor.  The name "The Interim Pseudo IRTC / TINA CheP Ray Tracing
> Forum" is unlikely to have potential participants submitting in droves.

   You are correct, and I'm thinking that if the present competition is 
going to be a world-wide one, (as it is), then how about '3D-IRTC'? I'm just 
wondering though, are there any copyright issues with using 'IRTC'? 
Afterall, someone, at some point came up with that name, and I guess it's 
their copyright?


> I was rather hoping that ~Steve~ would be willing to host the page so that
> everything would be together in one place, but I could find a spot for it
> myself if this was not agreeable for any reason.  I would like to have the
> whole thing up and running by the end of this weekend if at all possible 
> so
> that anyone introduced to the project by the page would have plenty of 
> time
> to get an entry ready.  Also, I'm not particularly concerned with the
> notion of judging and picking winners myself, but we really ought to
> discuss what , if anything, we're going to do in that regard so that
> decisions will be forthcoming in a reasonable amount of time.

     Hey Mike, please don't worry about this. I've literally just been to 
see our local hosting company in town, and I'm assured that I can have a 
format whereby entrants can upload their images, vote, and comment, (this 
will also include the animations). How this is actually going to work, I'm 
not sure at the moment. But just for now, I'll keep it the way it is, (with 
your suggestions above implemented).

    Why am I doing this? Well, because I have a passion for the IRTC. It was 
the place to go to try and further your skills and improve yourself by 
taking in the various suggestions and (often precious) comments that other 
people gave from around the world. It harvested a whole new community back 
in 1994 that is still going strong today, (and it appears to be stronger 
than ever now). Another reason is that I had a look at the IRTC site again 
last night, (and just now), and I can't even comprehend why it says: 
"deadline was passed by 66 days, 5 hours, 54 minutes, and 22 seconds".

   That's just mad.

  Another reason is that if you Google IRTC, there are 192,000 references. 
Now, that's not to say that they're all to to with the IRTC as we know it, 
but heck, I'm willing to bet that one hell of a lot ARE to do with it. I 
know there are a stack of people who have linked to it from their own sites, 
and of course, you do get stuff like this too: 
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/Internet+Ray+Tracing+Competition.

   And lastly, the IRTC site admins say on the website that they are on 
'Hiatus' which means "a break or interruption in the continuity of a work, 
series, action, etc." They also say, "We will provide more details soon", 
but they haven't, and I don't believe they will. And anyway, how soon is 
'soon'? Do we wait another 66 days? More? If any of the admins read this, I 
hope that IF they are doing something about it *now*, then they would have 
the decency to reply and say so, because otherwise, I'm going ahead with my 
plans.

    ~Steve~



> Thanks in advance to everyone for their input.
>
> -Mike C.
>
>
>
>

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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
....
>    This, I'm dealing with right now. Over the weekend, (or sooner), your
> suggestions below will also be implemented.
>
....
>      Hey Mike, please don't worry about this. I've literally just been to
> see our local hosting company in town, and I'm assured that I can have a
> format whereby entrants can upload their images, vote, and comment, (this
> will also include the animations). How this is actually going to work, I'm
> not sure at the moment. But just for now, I'll keep it the way it is, (with
> your suggestions above implemented).

This all sounds fine.  Thanks again for all of your efforts.  I just wanted
to make sure that one person didn't get stuck with all the work. Also, it
just seemed more appropriate for me to offer to make a page than to suggest


stand by and await further developments.

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Steve and Mike,

It is fantastic how you feel committed to build a new site hosting this new 
avatar of the defunct(?) IRTC. My sincesre and humble thanks for this. And 
of course to all the people that have joined in the discussions over the 
past months. The concept is very much alive and kicking!

Concerning the name of the competition, there is the problem that - as long 
as we are not certain that the IRTC will not be revived one day, and I 
believe Chris Cason implied this more or less, or am I mistaken? - this 
competition will have a provisional status. Not that that is a problem in 
itself. On the contrary, I think it enables us all to explore new avenues 
and expand our challenges, and maybe it will even continue in its own right. 
But how to call it? with reference to the IRTC, like Steve suggests 
(3D-IRTC), or IRTC-2 (my humble suggestion), apart from copyright problems 
maybe, or try to imagine a new name that immediately will attract people to 
it? That is more difficult, although more challenging, no doubt. Something 
like the CGSphere competition name, but better :-) for instance 3DC (3D 
Competition)? Not very good, I know, but I'm just scratching my mind's 
convolutions...

>  ....Another reason is that I had a look at the IRTC site again last 
> night, (and just now), and I can't even comprehend why it says: "deadline 
> was passed by 66 days, 5 hours, 54 minutes, and 22 seconds".
>
>   That's just mad.

Yeah... It's weird. The clock still ticking in an abandoned house... spooky!


Thomas

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Thomas de Groot wrote:

> 
> What I forgot to say... You can always show the picture in p.b.i.
> To tell the truth, I am very curious now that you revealed it's existence 
> :-)
And the interpretation of topic.

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For a name I'd go for N-IRTC which would either mean New IRTC or
"Not the IRTC".
--

I'd like to keep the same spirit as the IRTC - anyone (especialy 
beginners) can enter with any software (especially free/home grown).
--

I'd like to use a similar judging system to the old IRTC and to have 
comments attatched to the images. The TinaChep round did have the plus 
point that people could reply to their comments (I will soon) but the 
comments were not attached to or grouped by image, which makes reading a 
little harder.
--

I would like it if we could change the file size limit so that we can 
submit reasonable images at least 1024x768 (possibly larger).
--

I'd also personally like the post processing rules changed / clarified, 
as some irtc judges seemed to frown on any post processing while in my 
view scripted/scriptable post processing should be fine.

For example global Colour / brightness adjustment should be allowed.
If people create HDRI images then to convert them to a normal JPEG they 
need to mess with the brightness etc and should be allowed to let the 
highlights flare/bleed if they want.

In my book painting or retouching is bad, global filters are fine. (most 
global filters *could* be done in POV but photoshop/gimp are far simpler 
and save re-rendering)

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Hash: SHA1

Verm wrote:
> I would like it if we could change the file size limit so that we can
> submit reasonable images at least 1024x768 (possibly larger).
> -- 
	I've seen this point raised several times now, so I'd like to point
out that this is already allowed by the IRTC (and has been for some
time). Quoting the IRTC rules:

<quote>
The JPEG file may have any width or height dimension, though we
recommend keeping it "reasonable". The only size restriction on
images now is the file size.
</quote>

	And from the FAQ:

<quote>
[1.1.5] Can I enter an image with any size ratio?
    Yes, you can. The only limit now is the file size, which must be
smaller than 250kb. Anyhow, we recommend to use "reasonable" ratios
(and surely the judges too).
</quote>

		Jerome
- --
+------------------------- Jerome M. BERGER ---------------------+
|    mailto:jeb### [at] freefr      | ICQ:    238062172            |
|    http://jeberger.free.fr/     | Jabber: jeb### [at] jabberfr   |
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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote in message news:45f01e2c$1@news.povray.org...
> "Mike the Elder" <zer### [at] wyanorg> wrote in message

  The name "The Interim Pseudo IRTC / TINA CheP Ray Tracing
>> Forum" is unlikely to have potential participants submitting in droves.
>
>   You are correct, and I'm thinking that if the present competition is 
> going to be a world-wide one, (as it is), then how about '3D-IRTC'? I'm 
> just wondering though, are there any copyright issues with using 'IRTC'? 
> Afterall, someone, at some point came up with that name, and I guess it's 
> their copyright?

   Ok, being a jeweller, (as in designer, maker, blah, blah, blah), by 
trade, I do know a little about copyright. ;)

     I'm thinking of dropping the 'I' to leave RTC. So I'm now thinking 
along the lines of  '3D-RTC', or, it could be 'RTC-3D'

     But, I'm still hoping that someone has something to propose. So, if 
anyone is thinking of a suitable name, or can adjust the above to be more 
suitable, please post it, it might be just the right thing.

      ~Steve~

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> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Verm wrote:
>> I would like it if we could change the file size limit so that we can
>> submit reasonable images at least 1024x768 (possibly larger).
>> -- 
> 	I've seen this point raised several times now, so I'd like to point
> out that this is already allowed by the IRTC (and has been for some
> time). Quoting the IRTC rules:
> 
> <quote>
> The JPEG file may have any width or height dimension, though we
> recommend keeping it "reasonable". The only size restriction on
> images now is the file size.
> </quote>

I did say increase the file size limit, I know there's no explicit image 
dimensions limit :-) .

I was suggesting the file size was too low to allow larger images 
without compression artefacts, not that larger images were not allowed.

I've rechecked through the irtc archives and seen that most images don't 
seem have difficulty fitting in the 250k limit, (so the problem isn't 
that great) but still I'd think some images with lots of hard edges 
might have difficulty fitting 1024x768 or 1280x1024 into 250k. I just 
thought now might be a good time to re-raise the issue.

- has anyone found the 250k limit restrictive and does anyone think we 
should soften the limit a bit? (bandwidth allowing of course)

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