"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I cannot see how to construe that ("sense of entitlement") from
> my initial rant; it wasn't motivated by vengefulness, nor have I asked for
> preferential treatment.

This is a pivotal point, and forms the crux of much of the misunderstandings
that occur.

I tried to express this before - poorly - because the messages and the language
used contribute to the muddled thought.

Persistence of Vision Raytracer, (the non-Franco-American "POV-Ray") exists - as
a project, a corporation, a Team, a website, a community, etc.

Since "POV-Ray" (NOT Chris Cason or any other individual) puts itself out there
on the web, and advertises itself as a living software project with developers
and GitHub releases and future versions, etc., That creates a certain impression
in the minds of reasonable people.  This leads to the formation of
not-unreasonable expectations.

No one is saying that anyone "OWES" anyone else anything.
Not like the IRS tells people that they "OWE" a cut of the money that they
earned (*), or the local government tells people that they "OWE" taxes on a
house that they bought, or that some imbecile tells me that I "OWE" anyone else
anything based upon race, or the conduct of individuals other than me (long
dead), or some wholly mythological "Social Contract" that no one can produce and
that I never signed.
No, not like that.

But when someone makes a representation "Hi, we're the POV-Team - we write and
develop POV-Ray..." _and doesn't expand on that or make any representations to
the contrary_ (We do this as a hobby, when and if we feel like it), then it's a
bit harsh to accuse someone of entitlement if, out of a completely reasonable
state of ignorance, they come into a discussion with certain expectations.

If someone told that they were going to meet me - they're not "obligated" to do
so - contractually, or legally - but barring extenuating circumstances, you'd
expect them to.
If someone told you that they'd tutor you in a class for free - and then showed
up and - wasn't qualified - wasn't interested - acted offended because you
expected then to help you --- that would be pretty weird and kind of
inappropriate.

So when people actively maintain a piece of software for 25+ years - looking
from the outside to be doing all of the things that a software company typically
does - one expects them to be doing those things.   Not in an entitled sense -
but just in a general, natural, wholly predictable "this is the way I expected
it to be" sense.

If someone maintained a brick-and-mortar storefront with signs and product and a
website and there was someone obviously behind the counter inside, and when you
walked in, they somehow took umbrage that you kind of expected them to provide
you with the basic level of service that they seemed to offer - there would be a
certain level of bewilderment.  "Open for business" carries a certain set of
connotations.

"Open for software development" carries - a certain set of connotations.

And if no one has taken the time to be open, upfront, and forthcoming about a
state of affairs that exists to the contrary, then it's a bit disingenuous - and
dances on the edge of "baiting" or "entrapment" of some kind.

I'm not going to speak for jr - he's perfectly capable of doing that himself.
But I would say that often people express things with personal language - they
may anthropomorphize - they may say "you" when they mean "people in general" -
when they are trying to communicate an idea.

My personal opinion is that the idea that I believe jr was trying to
communicate, is that "POV-Ray" writes and develops the POV-Ray software.  WHY?
If it was for their own personal use or for kicks - then why "put it out there"
on the web in the manner that it is?  The natural assumption is that --- wait
for it ---

they do it for the end users.
And that carries a set of connotations that are very hard for the average person
to avoid carrying with them as natural assumptions.

And the idea that I think needs to discussed (as it is) and clarified (Right out
there on the webpage - front and center) is that "it's a bit different than
that."  It's a loosely organized collection of people who contribute to its
progress if and when they are able to - if at all.
There's no hierarchy, there's no responsibility (at all), there's no money,
there's no obligation - to do anything.  At all.
POV-Ray could halt right where it is forever, or suddenly be wiped from the
Internet.

Now, people have different ways of communicating, which is based on their
imprinting, upbringing, social conditioning, brainwashing, socio-economic
factors, and even language.
I was told that Spain's and Mexico's Spanish are diametrically opposite - what's
polite in one "language" is heinously offensive in the other. (That's what
someone told me)
Some people may be shy, meek, lacking confidence, unsure of how to go about
things, etc.

I believe that people in the past have made some attempt at offering to help.
It was probably their expectation that someone from "The POV-Ray Team" would
follow up on that and more would happen.
That's obviously not the case.

To remedy that, and make it as easy as possible for people who have some
interest in helping - perhaps we can have a application form or special section
of the forums - or whatever, where a list of what is expected from them by The
People Who Run POV-Ray Behind The Curtain is provided, and they can divulge
relevant information such as experience, level of interest, available time to
work on things, willingness to learn new skills, etc.
That way it's clear, more inviting, more "official", and there's more of an
unambiguous record of their offer to help and the response.  Because no one's
going to just pick up the pile of source code, demystify it, and write some new
matrix math module or try to extricate the parser from the renderer - if they're
intimidated - if they don't get the sense that it's ok, and there will be
support, and there will be something at the end of it.


> > And, to conclude, everyone is getting older and new blood has not been
> > forthcoming.
>
> that is one of the "ominous" signs which may have contributed to my .. upset.

> > ...
> > As to the future. I see Pov stagnating until all the old timers have
> > transitioned.
>
> since this is the .. "fate" I'm railing against, I hope your expectation will
> not become reality.


Do not go gentle into that good night
Dylan Thomas - 1914-1953


Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


(*) Taxes are Stealing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2xm8fzQzM0

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