hi,

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:37:46 -0400, jr wrote:
>
> >> And your point is?  It takes people to step up to do stuff, and when
> >> people aren't stepping up to do stuff, things don't get done.
> >>
> >> Welcome to the world of open source development with a small project
> >> team.
> >
> > hmm.  personally, I know of _v_ small "project team"s, ie individuals,
> > who have managed, besides living their personal lives, to create, for
> > instance, a fully standards compliant C compiler, in significantly fewer
> > than thirteen years.
>
> Everyone's lives are different.  You don't get to dictate the terms that
> other people live their lives by.

there you go again, "you don't get to dictate..".  what makes you think I am
trying to tell anyone how to their life?

wrt the above, I simply point out that while some small teams, right down to the
smallest, manage to .. get on, that is not the case with POV-Ray, alas.  (or so
it seems)

> > (for some reason everybody seems real .. coy when talk of Moray looms)
>
> Hey, I'd like to see Moray come back to life as well.  But I can't
> contribute to it, and I sure as hell am not going to criticize people who
> have their own busy lives to live for not doing something that I'm not
> willing or able to step up and contribute to.

eg had the source been put some place public, like the wiki, or even github,
more than just a select few could have at least have a look at the .. task at
hand.

> >> >> Instead of complaining, maybe offer to help out where you can.
> >> >
> >> > <http://news.povray.org/web.
> 5f00de9f17b7b05f4d00143e0%40news.povray.org>
> >>
> >> Fair enough.
> >
> > very gracious, I'm sure.  (the withdrawn "a telling" was .. telling,
> > also, or so I think.  :-))
>
> Yeah, I didn't read closely enough - the link showed up weird in my
> newsreader, and I missed it.  I'll own that error on my part.

thanks.

and here's what I do not understand.  you have admin privilege for the news
server, and the wiki, afaik, and, guessing here, for the main website.  so why
then, as I pointed out in my initial "rant", is the news section so .. not news?
surely, whether you personally or someone else with access, could have sometime
in the past couple of years or so, added an item re the 3.8.0 alphas?  (I mean,
seriously, how many minutes would one need writing ~150 words?)

> >> Being impatient isn't going to make things go faster.  As you astutely
> >> observed, the "stuff going on in the world" is life.  People have them,
> >> and set their priorities as they see fit.
> >>
> >> They're not going to change them based on your desires, especially if
> >> you rant and complain to get action.
> >
> > uh, this is about me now?  (if you can't play the ball, play the man?)
>
> I don't see anyone else bitching and complaining about the state of
> development and throwing blame around.
>
> The world doesn't revolve around your wants and desires, and putting
> together a laundry list of complaints isn't really a great way to
> motivate people to do what you want them to do.
>
> It's one thing to ask for an update and to be polite about it.

no one's asking "for an update".  have you even read the initial "rant"?

>  You've
> been anything but.  I've known Chris for a very long time, and while he's
> being too nice to say "hey, you're being a dick about this", I don't
> appreciate people being dicks to my friends.
>
> I didn't see you step up in the past 13 years after Lutz handed off Moray
> to the POV-Ray project and say "how can I help facilitate getting this
> code reviewed and made available?".

no, have not been .. povving for that long.  and, in fairness, I'm not the first
to enquire about Moray, and what's happening.

> If you have too delicate a disposition to be called out when you're being
> a jerk, perhaps you should just go away.  At least be adult enough to own
> the fact that you have all the tact of a brick through a window.

directness, I'd call it.  :-)  look, I've no intention of letting this develop
in to a .. slanging match.  I am simply concerned that the s/ware I've grown
fond of using, isn't thriving.  and I'm more concerned now, because days turn
into weeks, weeks turn into months, etc, and yet, no real attempt at
communicating the context.


regards, jr.

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