jr <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:


> less sure what, though erudite, "do not disturb my circles" means here.

Well, if we're using survival as an intelligence metric, then what do we make of
some grunt running Archimedes through with a sword?  Who's more intelligent?
Who survived?
I think intelligence is more than that, as I may get into below, or later, as
time permits.


> the "box" is a maze.  the task is to locate the food stuff.  simples.
>
> > But that also leads into my earlier points of _ability_ to exercise your
> > intelligence in an environment vs simply being intelligent.
>
> my point exactly.  to find the food at some acceptable "cost", you will
> have to "exercise your intelligence" (unless you happen to locate the
> food by accident).

Well, my main point here is that there are physical attributes of a creature
that allow it to DO certain things that another creature may not be able to do.
So even though there may be a puzzle, there may be purely physical
obstacle/challenges that have nothing to do with intelligence.
We also haven't gotten into things like sanity, mental illness, phobias, etc.
I'm assuming for the sake pf present discussion we're "assuming a spherical
human"  ;)

> > jr <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:> "... conducting the experiment, "
> > And that's a problem right there.
> > Scientists almost never conduct a single experiment - not in the way you're
> > presenting.
>
> in both posts I wrote that they're commencing the second experiment.

Right, but I meant multiple experiments in a different context.
For maximum differentiation / signal-to-noise ratio, you'd want to provide ample
access to things that would allow the creatures to apply their intellect to
their surroundings.
Archimedes would surely want a lever... ;)



> > I suppose if we have to be limited by what you present, then I'd look at what
> > each organism did.
>
> I'd hoped we'd get here.

:P

> > If it was more of the same - stupid.
> > If it tried new and different things, and variations on those - then
> > intelligent.
>
> can you please rewrite this wrt the maze context?

One would assume the slime mold would just search around endlessly in it's
oozing manner, and not do much of anything else.

Since you haven't provided [m]any features to act upon, and we're talking about
someone who would "test well" in this scenario, I would assume they'd try to do
as you suggested, using hair or something to mark their progress through the
maze.
One might try the "right-hand rule" and follow the walls around until exiting
the maze.


> > Maybe put a one-way door in, and see which one props it open (recognizes the
> > concept of irreversibility, time, order of operations, and keeping options open)
>
> too condensed.  not sure I follow.

A door one can open by pushing from one side, but that then closes and cannot be
opened from the other side.  An intelligent creature might recognize such a
feature and attempt to prop it open so as not to lock itself into one
exploratory path and shut out the option of going back.

Presumably the blob would ooze through, and that would be it.



> > 5. Maybe solving the maze isn't such a good idea - perhaps the ones
> who better
> > solve the maze are the ones that get weeded out by the researcher...
>
> heh.  there's always that..  :-)
>
>
> btw, there's an excellent (IMO) SF short story "Arena" by Frederic
> Brown, where the ability to utilise one's intelligence became the
> difference between life and death.  (hence the Sirian "scenario")

We could / should have that.  ;)

There is the question of intellect relieving evolutionary pressure, and indeed
we have technology and food supply enabling people to lounge aimlessly, the
unfit to survive to reproduce, and damaging the gene pool by diluting the fit
genes with less fit ones.

This then touches on:
short term goals "Me!" vs long term goals (humanity)
morals, ethics and sanity (eugenics) (great CEO or psychopath?)
AI (we're more fit, kill all humans)
would intelligent beings create an AI given the above possible / probable
outcome

Lots more swirling through my head - break is over - maybe later if I have the
free time  :)

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