On Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:22:12 -0800, Ken wrote:
>Gilles Tran wrote:
>> 
>> But this NG is dedicated to computer graphics, and
>> used by people who have up-to-date configurations, if only to run CG software and
>> Internet connections able to download binaries. I've also noticed that the people
>> who seem to have trouble with HTML postings are also rather advanced computer
>> users, which doesn't make sense... When I have trouble reading a file because of
>> a new popular format, I search for the latest version or patch that supports it
>> and always find it. This what I did when I started receiving HTML-coded e-mails.
>> Is that really impossible for HTML post reading, even without using Netscape ? Or
>> is there something sentimental about using non-HTML supporting newsreaders ?

The main problem I have with using Netscape to read news is that it has horrible
keyboard support, no support for scoring posts, and a cramped, ugly interface
that makes me scroll far too much (800x600 screen, not by choice) to read a 
simple 30-line post.  On top of that, having to switch back and forth from the 
message pane to the message list is annoying in the extreme.  My explanation 
for why I use slrn is simple: I touch-type and I have tendonitis.  Interfaces 
that force me to take my hand off the keyboard and move the mouse to a tiny 
scrollbar button to do something I do often are not interfaces that I use for 
long.  In addition to that, Netscape has far too many bugs and idiosyncrasies 
that I don't want to have to deal with.  Outhouse Express is worse.

It looks like you're falling into a common trap: you think that just because my 
newsreader doesn't support HTML that it must not be state-of-the-art.  In fact, 
it supports far more _useful_ features, such as scoring and scripting, than 
Netscape ever will, and takes up less than a megabyte of hard drive space in 
the process.  On top of that, it's configurable, so I can add all the NNTP 
headers the Netscape designers thought were unnecessary when I need them (such
as Expires: )  And if HTML support is the hallmark of an advanced newsreader, 
why is it that only two of the dozens of available newsreaders have it, and 
none of the others have plans to add it anytime soon?

Finally, when the next killer ActiveX/Javascript trojan comes along, I'll be
immune.  Will you? 

>  You know Gilles I agree with you almost completely. A very vocal minority
>have have asserted that html posts are an -inconvenience- for them and that
>in order to read posts that are in html format they have to use a separate
>program that will read them. This implies they have the resources at their
>disposal to handle html posts but stick with software that does not support
>it out of preference. In this case the minority are controlling the majority.

Yes, I have Netscape.  I use it to look at the pretty pictures in p.b.i, 
because it's more convenient in that case.  But I use slrn even to read the
non-binary posts in p.b.i, just because it doesn't force me to use the mouse
to do everything useful, and because it does things Netscape just can't do
and has configurations Netscape just doesn't have.  Besides that, it's open
source, and I'm kinda partial to open source.  I've even modified my copy of
slrn, as you should all recall, to strip objectionable vcards.  Let's see you 
(the generic you, not Ken or Gilles) do that with Netscape.  (Yes, I know 
about Mozilla.  Come find me when it's ready for normal people to run.)

Someday, I'll teach slrn to strip the common tags from postings made with 
Netscape, particularly the nbsp travesty, and then I'll stop complaining
because all that HTML will be human-readable again.

However, I do agree with both of you that if we're going to ask new users not
to post in HTML, we should do it quietly and with respect, and preferably with
directions on how to turn off HTML posting in their newsreader of choice.

-- 
These are my opinions.  I do NOT speak for the POV-Team.
The superpatch: http://www2.fwi.com/~parkerr/superpatch/
My other stuff: http://www2.fwi.com/~parkerr/traces.html

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