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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 5 Nov 2011 09:18:42
Message: <4eb537b2$1@news.povray.org>
An illustration of what I mean can be seen in p.b.i.

Thomas


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From: TawnyOwl
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 7 Nov 2011 15:55:01
Message: <web.4eb844fb2b1201fb81a7bfc00@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot <tenDOTlnDOTretniATtoorgedDOTt> wrote:
> An illustration of what I mean can be seen in p.b.i.
>
> Thomas

First I will thank you all for the help again. I'm on a much better way now. The
main problem seems to be the trade off between the hair density and the number
of breaks, especially if you intent a more close picture. As I originally wrote,
I would like to have curly hair which cannot be achieved with 3 to 6 breaks
only. 30 seems to be a minimum for that goal with dynamic hair from poser - and
a certain degree of closeness. I have choosen to sacrifice the half of the
originally intended length and worked throuh a slightly modified version of the
second example in the poser tutorial (I only bended the head a little bit to the
back for the dynamics calculations) which fulfilles my needs for the intended
picture. Since I have the one or other idea to improve the result, I will give
them a try before I show you the result...

Regards,
Michael


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 8 Nov 2011 03:32:07
Message: <4eb8e907$1@news.povray.org>
On 7-11-2011 21:52, TawnyOwl wrote:
> First I will thank you all for the help again. I'm on a much better way now. The
> main problem seems to be the trade off between the hair density and the number
> of breaks, especially if you intent a more close picture. As I originally wrote,
> I would like to have curly hair which cannot be achieved with 3 to 6 breaks
> only. 30 seems to be a minimum for that goal with dynamic hair from poser - and
> a certain degree of closeness. I have choosen to sacrifice the half of the
> originally intended length and worked throuh a slightly modified version of the
> second example in the poser tutorial (I only bended the head a little bit to the
> back for the dynamics calculations) which fulfilles my needs for the intended
> picture. Since I have the one or other idea to improve the result, I will give
> them a try before I show you the result...

I have never tried curly hair so your work is an interesting first. I am 
certainly interested in any improvement that can be reached. I am also 
still experimenting with different ideas and shall report any 
breakthrough. As I answered to FlyerX, we cannot rely entirely on hair 
maps only.

Thomas


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From: TawnyOwl
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 9 Nov 2011 16:25:00
Message: <web.4ebaef632b1201fbc8af75270@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot <tenDOTlnDOTretniATtoorgedDOTt> wrote:
>
> I have never tried curly hair so your work is an interesting first. I am
> certainly interested in any improvement that can be reached. I am also
> still experimenting with different ideas and shall report any
> breakthrough. As I answered to FlyerX, we cannot rely entirely on hair
> maps only.
>
> Thomas

I really hope I can achieve the goal.

So, now I have a first EIP (as I put it: experiment in progress) and will put it
into the p.b.i as a response to the picture of Thomas. This one will make my
intentions a little bit more clear I hope. It is only the "`hair"'. I hope you
can imagine a female head looking to te upper left inside of it. I mixed up some
memories in my head from my first approach at the beginning of the year and was
a little bit confused about the results I achieved. FlyerX is right in saying
that 30 breaks are to much - an error of me -, but as is obvious in the picture
six are not enough. The problem turned out more to be a problem with an
appropriate texture than with the breaks or the support points in poser. Of
course I will hair and not red ribbons, but this one comes close to my
intentions. And I must comb her a little bit more ...

When I'm through it, I will give you the final result. But have some patience...

Regards,
Michael


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 10 Nov 2011 03:26:27
Message: <4ebb8ab3@news.povray.org>
On 9-11-2011 22:23, TawnyOwl wrote:
> I really hope I can achieve the goal.

You are well on the way.

>
> So, now I have a first EIP (as I put it: experiment in progress) and will put it
> into the p.b.i as a response to the picture of Thomas. This one will make my
> intentions a little bit more clear I hope. It is only the "`hair"'. I hope you
> can imagine a female head looking to te upper left inside of it. I mixed up some
> memories in my head from my first approach at the beginning of the year and was
> a little bit confused about the results I achieved. FlyerX is right in saying
> that 30 breaks are to much - an error of me -, but as is obvious in the picture
> six are not enough. The problem turned out more to be a problem with an
> appropriate texture than with the breaks or the support points in poser. Of
> course I will hair and not red ribbons, but this one comes close to my
> intentions. And I must comb her a little bit more ...

A few thoughts that come to mind:

- Using only 6 breaks, you could then subdivide the resulting curly mesh 
in Poseray, using the Smooth (Loop's algorithm) option, taking care to 
uncheck the Keep mesh creases box. Start with one subdivision and see 
how it goes. Be careful to switch off all other objects you may have in 
your model, as they would also be subdivided, and you may not want that 
to happen.

- Texturing the hair is indeed a real headache. I am still experimenting 
with that and it is not easy especially as the tubes are not uv-mapped. 
I have tried the wood pattern however with an acceptable result. In your 
case, maybe an onion pattern with adequate warping might do the trick. A 
spherical pattern might be even better. This is something we need to 
investigate. I am busy now on building a sphinx ;-) but I shall 
experiment more with this later.

>
> When I'm through it, I will give you the final result. But have some patience...

Please do. This is *science* in progress ;-)


Thomas


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From: TawnyOwl
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 10 Nov 2011 14:05:01
Message: <web.4ebc1eba2b1201fb80ccb1a0@news.povray.org>
Hm, hm, hm,

I didn't like to correct you, but the tubes are uv-mapped which allowed for my
cheap trick. I used the "sausages" by intention and created a very simple
texture with my favorite graphics software:

#include "colors.inc"

camera{
   orthographic
   location <0,0,-1000>
   look_at <0,0,0>

   right 1024*x
   up 1024*y
}
light_source { <0,0,-1000>, color White }

box { <-1024,-100,-1>,<1024,50,1> rotate <0,0,-45> translate <0,512,0> pigment {
color Red } }
box { <-1024,-100,-1>,<1024,50,1> rotate <0,0,-45> translate <0,-512,0> pigment
{ color Red } }

I saved it as a GIF (teststraehne.gif) and used the following texture for the
tubes:

#declare tube_material1_=
material{
texture{ uv_mapping pigment { image_map { gif "teststraehne.gif" transmit 0,1  }
scale <1,1/16,1>}
        finish{specular 0 roughness 0.09632328 ambient rgb <0.00,0.00,0.00>
diffuse 0.6   reflection{0 } conserve_energy}}
}

That's all.

Regards,
Michael


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From: TawnyOwl
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 10 Nov 2011 14:20:00
Message: <web.4ebc22a92b1201fb80ccb1a0@news.povray.org>
I apologize, it was scale <1/16,1,1> in the scale-statement. Sorry,
Michael


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 11 Nov 2011 03:21:37
Message: <4ebcdb11$1@news.povray.org>
On 10-11-2011 19:59, TawnyOwl wrote:
> Hm, hm, hm,
>
> I didn't like to correct you, but the tubes are uv-mapped which allowed for my
> cheap trick. I used the "sausages" by intention and created a very simple
> texture with my favorite graphics software:

Oops! Now, why did I think the tubes were not uv-mapped?!? [bangs head 
against the screen]

That means one can also use trans maps!

>
> #include "colors.inc"
>
> camera{
>     orthographic
>     location<0,0,-1000>
>     look_at<0,0,0>
>
>     right 1024*x
>     up 1024*y
> }
> light_source {<0,0,-1000>, color White }
>
> box {<-1024,-100,-1>,<1024,50,1>  rotate<0,0,-45>  translate<0,512,0>  pigment {
> color Red } }
> box {<-1024,-100,-1>,<1024,50,1>  rotate<0,0,-45>  translate<0,-512,0>  pigment
> { color Red } }
>
> I saved it as a GIF (teststraehne.gif) and used the following texture for the
> tubes:
>
> #declare tube_material1_=
> material{
> texture{ uv_mapping pigment { image_map { gif "teststraehne.gif" transmit 0,1  }
> scale<1,1/16,1>}
>          finish{specular 0 roughness 0.09632328 ambient rgb<0.00,0.00,0.00>
> diffuse 0.6   reflection{0 } conserve_energy}}
> }
>

Thanks! I'll check this out.

Thomas


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 11 Nov 2011 03:53:29
Message: <4ebce289$1@news.povray.org>
image_map { gif "teststraehne.gif" transmit 0,1  }

should be: image_map { gif "teststraehne.gif" interpolate 2 transmit all 
0.1 }

otherwise one gets an error message.

Tell me what you think about this texture:

#declare tube_material1_=
material {
   texture {
     uv_mapping
     pigment {
       wood
       pigment_map {
         [0.00 srgb <251, 207, 140>/255 filter 0.5]
         [0.50 srgb <171,  77,  14>/255 filter 0.5]
         [1.00 srgb <  0,   0,   0>/255 filter 0.5]
       }
       scale <0.05, 10, 0.05>
       warp {turbulence 0.5}
       translate <3, 0, 2>
     }
     finish {
       specular 0.07843137
       roughness 0.005259534
       diffuse 0.6
     }
   }
}


Thomas


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From: TawnyOwl
Subject: Re: Dynamic Hair and PoseRay
Date: 13 Nov 2011 14:50:00
Message: <web.4ec01eeb2b1201fb3d22098b0@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot <tenDOTlnDOTretniATtoorgedDOTt> wrote:
> image_map { gif "teststraehne.gif" transmit 0,1  }
>
> should be: image_map { gif "teststraehne.gif" interpolate 2 transmit all
> 0.1 }
>
> otherwise one gets an error message.
>
> Tell me what you think about this texture:
>
> #declare tube_material1_=
> material {
>    texture {
>      uv_mapping
>      pigment {
>        wood
>        pigment_map {
>          [0.00 srgb <251, 207, 140>/255 filter 0.5]
>          [0.50 srgb <171,  77,  14>/255 filter 0.5]
>          [1.00 srgb <  0,   0,   0>/255 filter 0.5]
>        }
>        scale <0.05, 10, 0.05>
>        warp {turbulence 0.5}
>        translate <3, 0, 2>
>      }
>      finish {
>        specular 0.07843137
>        roughness 0.005259534
>        diffuse 0.6
>      }
>    }
> }
>
>
> Thomas

It looks pretty good. I've posted an image with it to the p.b.i. I have doubled
the length of the hair and used twice as much as in the red ribbon version
(density some 800 in poser). And I raised the breaks from 6 to 18.

Thanks a lot,
Michael


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