Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> On 10/7/2011 11:55, Jim Henderson wrote:
> > I would agree.  I define it as "advertising I didn't ask for".
>
> All advertising is advertising you didn't ask for. Otherwise it's product
> literature. :-)

I agree.

> I would say (for example) that most "junk mail" would be spam.

But junk mail doesn't come postage due.  It doesn't add to the cost of postal
services.

> But someone
> standing in the door of the store handing out coupons good in that store for
> products you may or may not be there to buy wouldn't be spam. The server
> telling you the specials of the day is advertisement but not spam. (Unless
> the special of the day is spam, of course.)

Do you mean "Spam" with a capital "S"?

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On 10/7/2011 20:42, Jim Henderson wrote:
> What's going to get me to buy them (as I did yesterday) is that I have a
> need for them.  Then I'm going to look for something that fits my needs.

That fails for things that you didn't know about.  New TV shows advertised 
on TV. Games on sale on Steam. Trailers for movies when you're at the 
movies. Etc.

> Coupons are a bit different to me - if they're for stores I shop at.  I
> don't mind getting Costco coupons, for example, because we have a
> membership there and we spend a fair amount of money there.  So it's good
> to know what's on sale and what's going to be on sale (since they
> actually will tend to ring the coupons regardless of whether or not you
> bring them in or not).

And that's what I'm saying. For you, the effort of looking thru the coupons 
for stuff you don't want is outweighed by the slight likelihood that you'll 
get a coupon for something you do want. It's less than $1 cost to find the 
$1 off coupon.

> But in general, I'm in the camp of "I hate all forms of advertising". :)

I dislike most of it, to the point where I stopped watching TV for many 
years, and even now watch maybe one or two shows a week sometimes. That 
doesn't mean I consider it "spam" instead of advertising.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?

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On 10/7/2011 20:47, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> Darren New<dne### [at] sanrrcom>  wrote:
>> On 10/7/2011 11:55, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> I would agree.  I define it as "advertising I didn't ask for".
>>
>> All advertising is advertising you didn't ask for. Otherwise it's product
>> literature. :-)
>
> I agree.
>
>> I would say (for example) that most "junk mail" would be spam.
>
> But junk mail doesn't come postage due.  It doesn't add to the cost of postal
> services.

Right. But the likelihood of me wanting something from the junk mail is far 
less than the effort of throwing it away and making sure real mail didn't 
get tangled up.

When it comes postage due, that's an even higher cost.  Advertising that's 
difficult to avoid and worth less than it costs to dispose of it is spam. 
Spam filters work by making it cost less to dispose of the spam, and thus 
letting through only the advertising you care about.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?

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On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 21:26:28 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> On 10/7/2011 20:42, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> What's going to get me to buy them (as I did yesterday) is that I have
>> a need for them.  Then I'm going to look for something that fits my
>> needs.
> 
> That fails for things that you didn't know about.  New TV shows
> advertised on TV. 

I have friends to tell me about those things.

> Games on sale on Steam. 

I don't use Steam.  No Linux support. ;)

> Trailers for movies when
> you're at the movies. Etc.

I rarely go to the movies (we use Netflix a lot - right now, it's the 
primary source of video entertainment for us; no job means no cable as 
it's too expensive, and trips to the movies are also pretty rare for us 
as we have a home theater).  But if I want to see what's coming out in 
theaters, I go to imdb.com, go to the playstation video store and see 
what trailers are up, or friends tell me about them. 

>> Coupons are a bit different to me - if they're for stores I shop at.  I
>> don't mind getting Costco coupons, for example, because we have a
>> membership there and we spend a fair amount of money there.  So it's
>> good to know what's on sale and what's going to be on sale (since they
>> actually will tend to ring the coupons regardless of whether or not you
>> bring them in or not).
> 
> And that's what I'm saying. For you, the effort of looking thru the
> coupons for stuff you don't want is outweighed by the slight likelihood
> that you'll get a coupon for something you do want. It's less than $1
> cost to find the $1 off coupon.

But it's for things that I'm actually planning to buy.  I don't peruse 
the Costco coupon catalog and go "oh, I didn't know about that, I must 
have it!"

>> But in general, I'm in the camp of "I hate all forms of advertising".
>> :)
> 
> I dislike most of it, to the point where I stopped watching TV for many
> years, and even now watch maybe one or two shows a week sometimes. That
> doesn't mean I consider it "spam" instead of advertising.

The "official" definition of spam (in this context) is unsolicited bulk e-
mail.  But I also tend to browse the web with adblock enabled as well 
(there are a few sites that I visit where I do disable it because I know 
it's the only source of income for the author - and I do occasionally 
click on the ads to generate some revenue, but it's not because I'm 
actually interested in ChristianMingle <barf>.  It's because I want the 
site operator to get some income to pay for what they provide me.)

Jim

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On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 21:28:17 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> On 10/7/2011 20:47, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> Darren New<dne### [at] sanrrcom>  wrote:
>>> On 10/7/2011 11:55, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> I would agree.  I define it as "advertising I didn't ask for".
>>>
>>> All advertising is advertising you didn't ask for. Otherwise it's
>>> product literature. :-)
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>>> I would say (for example) that most "junk mail" would be spam.
>>
>> But junk mail doesn't come postage due.  It doesn't add to the cost of
>> postal services.
> 
> Right. But the likelihood of me wanting something from the junk mail is
> far less than the effort of throwing it away and making sure real mail
> didn't get tangled up.
> 
> When it comes postage due, that's an even higher cost.  Advertising
> that's difficult to avoid and worth less than it costs to dispose of it
> is spam. Spam filters work by making it cost less to dispose of the
> spam, and thus letting through only the advertising you care about.

Actually to solve the postal service problem, I think they should raise 
the rates on bulk mail, especially for advertisers.

Jim

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On 10/7/2011 11:55 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Remember: CCCP soldiers always travelled as a pack of three. One that
>> could read, one that could write and one to keep watch of these two
>> dangerous intellectuals.
>
> LOL
Not sure I get it. I thought "Republican" was GOP, not CCCP? ;)

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On 10/7/2011 12:08 PM, Stephen wrote:
> On 07/10/2011 7:55 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:19:03 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> Since I don’t buy anything in response to targeted advertising. I would
>>> say spam is all unsolicited mail, whether it is electronic, snail mail
>>> or just pops through your letter box.
>>
>> I would agree. I define it as "advertising I didn't ask for".
>>
>
> And phone calls. I've been getting a spate of them recently about
> accidents that I’ve never had.
>
>
Damn precogs. Worse thing about them is that they are not around to help 
when the accidents finally "do" happen.

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On 10/7/2011 9:44 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> When it comes postage due, that's an even higher cost.  Advertising
>> that's difficult to avoid and worth less than it costs to dispose of it
>> is spam. Spam filters work by making it cost less to dispose of the
>> spam, and thus letting through only the advertising you care about.
>
> Actually to solve the postal service problem, I think they should raise
> the rates on bulk mail, especially for advertisers.
>
> Jim
You mean the, "You need to prepay, unlike any other company, people's 
pensions, so that we can call you a failure and privatize all of it.", 
problem?

I am willing to put up with 10 times the idiot advertisers, if just 10% 
of the money involved went into harassing the idiots that come up with 
this shit more than they do me.

Another good one in the same vein of, "Lets break it, so we can later 
fix it." is the joke where one state's Rethuglicans are arguing 
"against" giving all votes to the Electoral College, because it costs 
them like 40% of the "votes" they would get there, because 100% of the 
votes there go to the "winner" of the most votes. A few states over, 
they want to "fix" the opposite problem... They want all votes in that 
state to be lumped into a single "winner takes all" system, because 
there are like 15 votes there, or something, but last election they only 
got like 8 of them, so *letting* every districts vote count separately 
in that state "lost them" 7 votes.

In other words, according to their logic, its "unfair" if someone else 
gets 100% of the votes, in a place where the are outnumbered, but even 
*more* "unfair" for anyone to get *any* votes at all, in a place where 
the Rethuglicans outnumber their opponents.

The whole, "lets save the Post Office we intentionally bankrupted, by 
raising prices, or closing stores, instead of repealing stupid 
legislation", is pretty much par for the course for these assholes. And, 
you just know they have some insane poll on it, where the answers are:

1. This answer makes you look like an ass.
2. This answer we can twist to claim you want to screw the Post Office.
3. This answer is just here to make you either admit ignorance, or look 
like a complete idiot, either way, we win by showing that the public 
doesn't know what is best for itself.

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On 08/10/2011 6:16 AM, Patrick Elliott wrote:
>>
>> And phone calls. I've been getting a spate of them recently about
>> accidents that I’ve never had.
>>
>>
> Damn precogs. Worse thing about them is that they are not around to help
> when the accidents finally "do" happen.

LOL, that thought did cross my mind.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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On 08/10/2011 5:26 AM, Darren New wrote:
>
> I dislike most of it, to the point where I stopped watching TV for many
> years, and even now watch maybe one or two shows a week sometimes. That
> doesn't mean I consider it "spam" instead of advertising.

I know what you mean. I don't know how Americans can put up with the 
ratio of adverts to programme.

Having said that I loved the Guinness adverts. To me they were art.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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