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Am 24.07.2018 um 10:46 schrieb Mike Horvath:
> On 7/24/2018 4:38 AM, clipka wrote:
>> The anatomy of a link to a message in the web interface is as follows:
>>
>> http://news.povray.org/<GROUP>/message/<ID>/#<ID>
>>
>> where <GROUP> is the name of the newsgroup, and <ID> is the message ID
>> (always starting with `%3C` and ending with `%3E`, which represent the
>> characters `<` and `>`, respectively).
>
> The '<' and '>' are superfluous IMO, but it's probably not worth the
> trouble of removing them.
Technically, the URL scheme could be shortened to
http://news.povray.org/<ID>
without loss of information, provided that the leading `%3C` and
trailing `%3E` are retained as a pattern by which to recognize message
IDs and differentiate them from other links.
Note however that any change to the URL scheme would break links posted
in existing messages, unless the old URL scheme is also retained for
compatibility.
> Who is the webmaster, by the way?
The closest thing to a webmaster we currently have would be Chris Cason.
He has full access to everything, though I'm not sure whether he'd find
the time or energy to change it.
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On 24/07/2018 19:14, clipka wrote:
> Technically, the URL scheme could be shortened to
>
> http://news.povray.org/<ID>
>
> without loss of information, provided that the leading `%3C` and
> trailing `%3E` are retained as a pattern by which to recognize message
> IDs and differentiate them from other links.
You mean like this? http://news.povray.org/5b56ede4$1@news.povray.org
It doesn't bring up the thread, but it does at least link to the message.
> The closest thing to a webmaster we currently have would be Chris Cason.
> He has full access to everything, though I'm not sure whether he'd find
> the time or energy to change it.
I try not to touch that code too much as it's legacy (though it works
currently of course) and wasn't written by me. I do fix things from time
to time if it's important, but at some point we will have to face
changing it completely. The NNTP server we are using is a long
discontinued commercial product and I don't feel confident that it will
still work (or even be re-installable) when this server is finally
retired (the hardware is over ten years old now).
While technically I could install a new open-source NNTP server and suck
all the messages across then there's the issue of interfacing it with
the existing forum software and whether any of the features we use in
the commercial server that aren't in an OSS one matter or not. It's been
a long time since I had to tweak it.
What I'm saying basically is that when this machine eventually has to be
replaced and I replace the OS and everything with shiny new bits, it's
likely the NNTP server will not be part of it and we'll migrate
everything to some sort of standard forum software (or just keep the
existing one without the NNTP link).
If enough people feel strongly about it I would attempt to keep the NNTP
server, though.
PS I don't normally read P.O.T, just happened to be subscribed due to
the Moray question that came up recently and so did see this thread.
-- Chris
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On 22/07/2018 18:27, Mike Horvath wrote:
> How do I go back and read very old threads in Thunderbird? I know I can
> use the Web interface, but I prefer the news reader. Thanks.
Note that povray.off-topic is (or was) 'special' in that when we set it
up some 20 years ago we intentionally set the article retention period
to only two weeks (from memory). It was intended to keep things fresh,
avoid using up too much storage, and pretty much replicated how most
NNTP servers worked in those days.
Sometime in the last decade or so I decided the storage issue was no
longer important (new server, more disk space ...) so changed it.
There's possibly still some limit on it but it's certainly not two weeks
like it used to be.
-- Chris
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Am 24.07.2018 um 11:45 schrieb Chris Cason:
> On 24/07/2018 19:14, clipka wrote:
>> Technically, the URL scheme could be shortened to
>>
>> http://news.povray.org/<ID>
>>
>> without loss of information, provided that the leading `%3C` and
>> trailing `%3E` are retained as a pattern by which to recognize message
>> IDs and differentiate them from other links.
>
> You mean like this? http://news.povray.org/5b56ede4$1@news.povray.org
>
> It doesn't bring up the thread, but it does at least link to the message.
Um... yeah... I guess ;)
Now what we need is some elegant way to /get/ that link from any given
message.
> What I'm saying basically is that when this machine eventually has to be
> replaced and I replace the OS and everything with shiny new bits, it's
> likely the NNTP server will not be part of it and we'll migrate
> everything to some sort of standard forum software (or just keep the
> existing one without the NNTP link).
You mean the web interface without newsreader access?
That would be pathologically perverse. The only advantage of the current
system over a modern(!) web-based forum system I see is the newsreader
access. (Well, that and the vast archive of existing messages.) The web
front-end of the current system is maximally crappy by today's standards.
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Am 24.07.2018 um 11:50 schrieb Chris Cason:
> On 22/07/2018 18:27, Mike Horvath wrote:
>> How do I go back and read very old threads in Thunderbird? I know I can
>> use the Web interface, but I prefer the news reader. Thanks.
>
> Note that povray.off-topic is (or was) 'special' in that when we set it
> up some 20 years ago we intentionally set the article retention period
> to only two weeks (from memory). It was intended to keep things fresh,
> avoid using up too much storage, and pretty much replicated how most
> NNTP servers worked in those days.
>
> Sometime in the last decade or so I decided the storage issue was no
> longer important (new server, more disk space ...) so changed it.
> There's possibly still some limit on it but it's certainly not two weeks
> like it used to be.
p.o.t. currently seems to have a retention period of 4 weeks, give or take.
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On 25/07/2018 01:27, clipka wrote:
> Um... yeah... I guess ;)
>
> Now what we need is some elegant way to /get/ that link from any given
> message.
From the web view, just right-click on the message ID underneath the
date and copy the link.
-- Chris
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Am 24.07.2018 um 17:34 schrieb Chris Cason:
> On 25/07/2018 01:27, clipka wrote:
>> Um... yeah... I guess ;)
>>
>> Now what we need is some elegant way to /get/ that link from any given
>> message.
>
> From the web view, just right-click on the message ID underneath the
> date and copy the link.
Unfortunately the message ID is only visible in the thread view, not the
single-message view.
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Am 24.07.2018 um 11:45 schrieb Chris Cason:
> You mean like this? http://news.povray.org/5b56ede4$1@news.povray.org
BTW, did you just set this up, or has it always been around?
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On 25/07/2018 01:27, clipka wrote:
>> What I'm saying basically is that when this machine eventually has to be
>> replaced and I replace the OS and everything with shiny new bits, it's
>> likely the NNTP server will not be part of it and we'll migrate
>> everything to some sort of standard forum software (or just keep the
>> existing one without the NNTP link).
>
> You mean the web interface without newsreader access?
> That would be pathologically perverse. The only advantage of the current
> system over a modern(!) web-based forum system I see is the newsreader
> access. (Well, that and the vast archive of existing messages.) The web
> front-end of the current system is maximally crappy by today's standards.
Yep, which is why my first preference was for standard forum software,
however that involves a fair bit of work if we want to preserve history
(which I definitely do).
While I could import all the old messages one way or another,
associating them with their original authors (in terms of account setup)
is a bit of a nightmare given that the NNTP interface requires no auth.
Realistically apart from messages known to be posted by those with
logins on the current web interface all the old messages would be
considered 'orphaned' and auto-assigned to dummy accounts, as modern
forum software doesn't really understand the concept of allowing random
people to post messages without accounts :-/
An alternate option is to split the forums into 'old' and 'new' and run
a process which generates a set of static HTML pages from the existing
web view just prior to shutting it down. The static pages can then serve
as a permanent, read-only archive.
While the above is probably the most logical option it's probably only
acceptable if I can ensure the new forum's search function works across
both sets of data.
-- Chris
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On 25/07/2018 01:45, clipka wrote:
> Am 24.07.2018 um 11:45 schrieb Chris Cason:
>> You mean like this? http://news.povray.org/5b56ede4$1@news.povray.org
>
> BTW, did you just set this up, or has it always been around?
It's been there for as long as I can remember. I'd have to check the
change history in perforce to see exactly when but it'd be at least ten
years.
-- Chris
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