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28 Jul 2024 04:14:02 EDT (-0400)
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From: Sherry K  Shaw
Subject: Re: Interview question
Date: 16 Aug 2016 13:52:50
Message: <57b352f2$1@news.povray.org>
scott wrote:
>
> ...but to me even a
> non-engineer would be able to have at least a stab at some ideas for
> solving it.
>

An odd train of thought involving anti-gravity pads, some slanted brick 
wall, buckets, ropes, mouse boxes, and assorted other odds and ends 
ultimately led here:

https://archive.org/details/the_incredible_machine_1992

And eventually here:

https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games/v2&tab=collection

Woo-hoo!

TIM is a little clunky on my antique 'puter with slow connection (but so 
is everything else); I haven't yet determined whether it's possible to 
tweak the DOS Box settings from the browser (because I've been too busy 
pla--that is, "testing the interface").  :)

--Sherry Shaw

-- 
#macro T(E,N)sphere{x,.4rotate z*E*60translate y*N pigment{wrinkles scale
.3}finish{ambient 1}}#end#local I=0;#while(I<5)T(I,1)T(1-I,-1)#local I=I+
1;#end camera{location-5*z}plane{z,37 pigment{granite color_map{[.7rgb 0]
[1rgb 1]}}finish{ambient 2}}//                                   TenMoons


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From: Bald Eagle
Subject: Re: Interview question
Date: 16 Aug 2016 15:15:00
Message: <web.57b365294a19223ab488d9aa0@news.povray.org>
clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:

> Pro Tip: Do not try this at home. Turns out kidneys don't like high
> pressure in the urinary tract too much. A relative has just recently
> lost one of his to this phenomenon.

This is bad for pets - especially cats and clumping cat litter.
{Who knew? }
I lost a whole cat because it caused a blockage, inability to eliminate, and the
accumulation of K+ in the bloodstream, leading to cardiac arrest.


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From: scott
Subject: Re: Interview question
Date: 17 Aug 2016 02:43:33
Message: <57b40795$1@news.povray.org>
> If it is not in the Blueprint, that you signed, it is extra.

And actually, while we're at it, we'll charge you for investigating how 
much extra we need to charge you.


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From: scott
Subject: Re: Interview question
Date: 17 Aug 2016 02:47:00
Message: <57b40864$1@news.povray.org>
> An odd train of thought involving anti-gravity pads, some slanted brick
> wall, buckets, ropes, mouse boxes, and assorted other odds and ends
> ultimately led here:
>
> https://archive.org/details/the_incredible_machine_1992

Now there's a blast from the past!

> https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games/v2&tab=collection
>
> Woo-hoo!
>
> TIM is a little clunky on my antique 'puter with slow connection (but so
> is everything else); I haven't yet determined whether it's possible to
> tweak the DOS Box settings from the browser (because I've been too busy
> pla--that is, "testing the interface").  :)

Might have to take a look when I get home :)


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From: Orchid Win7 v1
Subject: Re: Interview question
Date: 17 Aug 2016 14:10:53
Message: <57b4a8ad$1@news.povray.org>
On 16/08/2016 04:40 PM, Stephen wrote:
> If it is not in the Blueprint, that you signed, it is extra.

This. 100x this.

If ONLY our boss would understand how CRITICALLY IMPORTANT it is to 
agree on EXACTLY what we're supposed to be delivering BEFORE we promise 
to deliver it in exactly X weeks...

Or, for that matter, if he would ASK somebody how long it will take 
BEFORE he promises the customer how long it will take?

On a similar subject, why is it that when we tell him "it will take 6 
months", he thinks we're just "exaggerating" or "being negative" or 
whatever? Hey genuis, which one of us is a qualified software developer? 
Which one of us develops software ALL FREAKING DAY, EVERY SINGLE 
WEEKDAY, AND HAS DONE FOR YEARS? So which one of us is qualified to 
prognosticate on how long it will take? Right, so WHY ARE YOU IGNORING US??

Oh yes, that's right. Because you go to the school of thought that if 
you just WISH for something, REALLY REALLY HARD, that makes it happen. 
Because, you know, the laws of physics don't apply to wishes...

No, I'm not bitter. Why do you ask that?


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Interview question
Date: 17 Aug 2016 14:50:32
Message: <57b4b1f8$1@news.povray.org>
On 8/17/2016 7:10 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> On 16/08/2016 04:40 PM, Stephen wrote:
>> If it is not in the Blueprint, that you signed, it is extra.
>
> This. 100x this.
>
> If ONLY our boss would understand how CRITICALLY IMPORTANT it is to
> agree on EXACTLY what we're supposed to be delivering BEFORE we promise
> to deliver it in exactly X weeks...
>

Salesmen, software salesmen. There is a special place reserved in hell 
for them.

[snip]


> No, I'm not bitter. Why do you ask that?


Because of your gentle prose. ;)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Bald Eagle
Subject: Re: Interview question
Date: 17 Aug 2016 15:05:01
Message: <web.57b4b4af4a19223ab488d9aa0@news.povray.org>
Orchid Win7 v1 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

> Oh yes, that's right. Because you go to the school of thought that if
> you just WISH for something, REALLY REALLY HARD, that makes it happen.
> Because, you know, the laws of physics don't apply to wishes...

Your boss is a politician?


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From: Orchid Win7 v1
Subject: Re: Interview question
Date: 17 Aug 2016 16:52:49
Message: <57b4cea1$1@news.povray.org>
On 17/08/2016 08:02 PM, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Orchid Win7 v1<voi### [at] devnull>  wrote:
>
>> Oh yes, that's right. Because you go to the school of thought that if
>> you just WISH for something, REALLY REALLY HARD, that makes it happen.
>> Because, you know, the laws of physics don't apply to wishes...
>
> Your boss is a politician?

It would be more accurate to say my boss possesses boundless optimism 
and is physically incapable of saying "no" to anybody who might give us 
money. Even if it's a tiny sum of money. So long as there's money. Or 
potential money. Or money some day. Theoretically. Perhaps...

Basically, he wants to please *everybody*. This is impossible, of course.


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From: scott
Subject: Re: Interview question
Date: 18 Aug 2016 02:50:33
Message: <57b55ab9$1@news.povray.org>
>> If it is not in the Blueprint, that you signed, it is extra.
>
> This. 100x this.
>
> If ONLY our boss would understand how CRITICALLY IMPORTANT it is to
> agree on EXACTLY what we're supposed to be delivering BEFORE we promise
> to deliver it in exactly X weeks...
>
> Or, for that matter, if he would ASK somebody how long it will take
> BEFORE he promises the customer how long it will take?

What happens here:

They (project manager/planner) will ask the people who know how long it 
will take, get told it will take 18 months. They'll moan at you, tell 
you to cut out stuff and squeeze the schedule to make it 12 months. So 
reluctantly you agree to 12 months with cutting out all this stuff and 
squeezing the schedule to a high-risk one (ie nothing unexepected will 
happen... we all know how that goes).

Then they'll be in a meeting with the customer/senior management, get 
pushed hard to deliver it sooner, and just agree that 8 months is fine. 
Also they'll forget to mention all the stuff that was needed to cut out 
to make it 12 months.

Then they mention "oh yeh by the way it's 8 months now". Yeh, that's not 
going to happen. "well it's agreed with the MD now so we can't change 
it".  Well we can change it, in 8 months time it will have to change!


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Interview question
Date: 18 Aug 2016 04:38:36
Message: <57b5740c$1@news.povray.org>
Am 18.08.2016 um 08:50 schrieb scott:

> What happens here:
> 
> They (project manager/planner) will ask the people who know how long it
> will take, get told it will take 18 months. They'll moan at you, tell
> you to cut out stuff and squeeze the schedule to make it 12 months. So
> reluctantly you agree to 12 months with cutting out all this stuff and
> squeezing the schedule to a high-risk one (ie nothing unexepected will
> happen... we all know how that goes).

I think you've just mentioned the key problem with traditional software
project planning: Handling of the unexpected.

In my career as a software development, I have been involved in exactly
/one/ project with really sound planning. I guess it is no coincidence
that this was /not/ a native software company; it was an automotive
engineering company, and the software to be developed was firmware for
one of their products.

It was also the only project I've ever been involved in where people
didn't try to pretend they would have everything under control.

"From our experience, we /expect/ to lose X days to unexpected problems."

And the one particular product I was involved in did indeed run into
problems, due to the customer being way overdue in delivering a
prototype car for testing. Ultimately, a few weeks before the deadline
we had to communicate to the customer that if they wanted us to proceed
with the project, they would have to take the full risk from now on,
even for things /we/ might screw up -- because the buffer we had wisely
set aside for such blunders had been all eaten up by their delays.

(The customer agreed to proceed under these conditions, and the project
did indeed proceed without any hitches from our side, and finished just
in time.)


I think it is this mindset of acknowledging that one /will/ run into
problems, both self-made and external, and that time /must/ be reserved
for such events accordingly, that is crucial for good project management.


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